EXCLUSIVE: Dattatreya Hosabale Full Interview | RSS General Secretary talks to PTI

本站收录: 2026-05-15

[00:00:00]How do you think we should deal with Pakistan?

[00:00:02]>> We should always be ready to engage them in dialogue. That's why diplomatic relations are maintained.

[00:00:08]>> I think you just now said that Trump has a wicked mind and is greed.

[00:00:11]>> I did not say if it is sheer pure love, >> no question. When it is jihad, there is a question. Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts. Absolutely.

[00:00:21]>> Then and even now, >> anytime.

[00:00:23]>> Am I talking to the next sarang chalak?

[00:00:26]>> That you should ask the sers chall.

[00:00:28]>> Hello. If the BJP is the dominant political force of the country today, it is RSS that acts as its ideological font. When it was founded 100 years ago by Dr. Hegger, he would have never imagined that RSS would one day be the driving force behind India's polity.

[00:00:46]Nurtured over decades by several leaders, RSS remained a shadowy figure in the background until 2014 when Narendra Modi led BJP to a now famous victory. As BJP has strengthened its hold over politics, so has RSS risen in stature. It is now the world's biggest voluntary organization under the guidance of Sarang Chalak. Dr. Moan Bhagwat. While Moan Bhagwat is the spiritual guide, his second in command, the Tatra Hosabal has the organizational control. Mr. Hosabal has just returned from a tour of the United States and Europe. The trip was an outreach to the global community as well as to the NRI community. We are talking to Mr. Hosle today on his world views and the controversies that seem to surround RSS.

[00:01:35]Datos, welcome to PTI's podcast.

[00:01:38]>> Welcome to this place and also very happy to see you. Namaste.

[00:01:44]>> Namaste. We are at the RSS headquarters in Delhi. You have just returned from a trip to the United States and two countries in the US uh in Europe and the intention was to uh remove some misconceptions that the western world might have about um RSS.

[00:02:03]What did you achieve in this in this trip? Were you are you happy with the outcome?

[00:02:09]>> Uh sure. uh that way I have been visiting the western countries to meet the Hindu community and also to address the Hindu Suan people in the past. This time as part of our uh global outreach efforts in the backdrop of uh centenary year of RSS.

[00:02:29]>> Mhm.

[00:02:31]>> We thought of meeting people who are uh local people and who are influential in various segments of society like academics, policy makers and many others such people.

[00:02:49]uh two invitations were there for me.

[00:02:51][clears throat] One from uh Stanford University faculty. There is a an organization called Global Scientific Innovation Forum and another is Hudson Institute of Washington DC.

[00:03:06]So this gave me an opportunity to go to some other places also and meet people.

[00:03:13]I had the opportunity of uh interacting with some academicians, think tank people, thought leaders including a Nobel la in uh >> yes >> Stanford >> and some people from the Congress among congressmen.

[00:03:32]>> [clears throat] >> So that uh gave me an opportunity to explain what RSS is and what's it philosophy and how we are civilizationally inspired by India's uh ancient culture and uh spiritual message to the world.

[00:03:53]>> So you spoke to a lot of non-Indians.

[00:03:55]What was their what was the main concern of the western world that came across that you could address? What kind of questions did they ask you about RSS about RSS's background and whatever misconceptions that you think exist?

[00:04:08]>> See one thing is either misconception or ignorance.

[00:04:11]>> Okay.

[00:04:12]>> So they had no idea what RSS is doing.

[00:04:16]>> Mhm. [clears throat] >> And many whatever they have heard is through some media some people.

[00:04:21]>> Mhm. And those who have visited India they have had the opinion about RSS on the base of the some media news here because they have not interacted barring [clears throat] one or two >> they have not interacted with any RSS person per se. So that's why misconception and ignorance both were there and they humbly accepted we don't know and some people thought that we are some anti-Muslim anti- minority >> supremacist organization >> say supremacist so all these things they had that >> so I said we are a voluntary volunteer based volunteer-driven organization >> to create human social capital and those who [snorts] engage themselves in community service and national service.

[00:05:09]>> Yes.

[00:05:10]>> And this is our track record for 100 years.

[00:05:12]>> Right.

[00:05:13]>> And that is why the people of RSS have come to the occupied the center stage of the Indian public life.

[00:05:19]>> And they have created many civil institutions to for the nation building activity. So this I have explained and it has gone well.

[00:05:31]>> The perception that RSS is anti-Muslim exists in India also. We'll come to that later. But I want to stay in the United States for for the time being. Um you were there last in 2018 and this was uh you were visiting United States after a long >> 8 years 8 years. Um in that period I mean you have seen the growth of the Indian diaspora. They are you know extremely wealthy. They occupy positions of uh influence and power. They are at the top in technology medical legal profession.

[00:06:03]>> Yeah.

[00:06:04]>> And everything. But at the same time do you get the sense and has it been told to you that the diaspora continues to be divided along regional language cast lines that there are different communities associations even within Telus Telos will stick to Telos Tamils will stick to Tamils Punjabis will be together >> thing is in India also these things to be corrected >> they need to be corrected right >> of course >> um You are right on both accounts that one is uh Indian diaspora has definitely made a mark there >> and they have grown and both academically and economically and their contribution to national wealth is also now being identified recognized.

[00:06:51]>> And in the last 8 years I should say that per capita income of Hindu community has definitely gone up. Yeah, >> think about Indian community or the Hindu community I should say that is >> they they they have not become a headache to any >> state >> anywhere in the world. So they have mingled with the society that is one thing >> that is a good part of it.

[00:07:13]>> And coming to the second part of your question see this they what I have when I interacted with them in the groups um formal or informal and this was my see individually uh most of you are every one of you have become successful >> but community wise are we successful?

[00:07:34]>> So this you should ask this question to yourselves. No doubt you organize many programs come together etc. But at the same time so the differences and because of diversities >> should not make us weak as a united community >> correct so are you disappointed then that we end up creating a mini Telangana mini Tamil Nadu mini andra and a major >> I'm a person with hopes >> okay >> otherwise 100 years back RSS if it would be dis disappointed people's organization we would not have created these things >> we have immense hope in our people so then this happens and as you said the and the base of language and state etc there are number of organizations in US as you know >> but the thing is what the two three things that we have been trying to do is one >> but the swam seaks of RSS from India they have tried to create se like organization in the name of HSS >> Mhm. Hindus in those uh cities >> and that is why when they come to Sana Shaka there also >> so the differences are disappearing >> okay >> so that is one thing which we have tried to the bottom line is that we belong to one culture one background >> how many people would be there in the HSS would you say what is the strength of HSS right >> yes there I think 175 >> thousand >> shakas are there >> 175 shakas are there >> in US yeah So they are I think I should say they are reaching around uh half a million people.

[00:09:14]>> Okay. Would you then say that the best way to remove all the differences that Indians have when they go or they continue with the differences would be for all of them to come together under the RSS umbrella.

[00:09:26]>> See all of them cannot come under HSS or whatever. See it it is impractical. M do you fear that Indians in America will very soon forget that they are Indians and will become entirely an American and is that okay with you?

[00:09:41]>> This is happening in India also.

[00:09:43][laughter] We are getting more and more westernized.

[00:09:45]>> Yes.

[00:09:46]>> See this is the thing. See what is uh becoming American or the British.

[00:09:51]>> It is ultimately it is a question of values. See outward things you think the dress or the attire or something this this goes up and be a Roman in Rome.

[00:10:03]>> Yes.

[00:10:04]>> So that has to be followed because that that that's fine >> right >> but the thing is still respect to elders family being together >> being responsible to the community.

[00:10:16]>> Yeah >> and taking care of the children and inculcate values in them in the upcoming generation. So these things are the basic and permanent values of human life. Correct.

[00:10:27]>> So what our see the Gita classes are being held there.

[00:10:31]>> Yoga has definitely given a sense of >> tremendous opportunity and it has pushed this whole thing. Yoga is not just some physical posture and 21st June you conduct. Yoga is a comprehensive approach to life.

[00:10:47]>> Yeah. So these things are definitely not only the SAS other organizations like Ramak Krishna and many others they are also doing a fantastic job. So that's why this will take care of it and that's [clears throat] why I said there is no hope for disappointment there is immense hope and they are following and new generation now this budon clubbing gita clubbing yeah >> so new people will understand values in their own way >> in their own way. So we we have to give them in the language and in the package that they understand and receive.

[00:11:22]>> Yeah. Earlier you said that Indians when they go to other countries and become permanent residents there they don't become a headache to the local society.

[00:11:30]But I'll counter you a little bit on that. There was an article recently in the New York Times about how there is a community in Texas where they have built a 40 foot or 60ft uh statue of Hanuman and it is rubbing the people the local the non-Indians the wrong way. Indians are um building temples everywhere which is which is what the Indians want and it is creating friction with the other communities. So look my question is how do you balance your pride of your pride in your culture in your heritage and your love for your religion and at the same time respect for your neighbors and the local host community. How do you balance that?

[00:12:14]>> The thing is first of what I said there not a headache >> all these things whether they have erected anaman statue or building temple >> have they done it illegally? No.

[00:12:23]>> No.

[00:12:24]>> So they have done everything legal. When I say they have not become headache, >> the majority [clears throat] 99.9% of people from this country who have gone there, >> they have not involved themselves in illegal activities.

[00:12:38]>> Yeah.

[00:12:40]>> So that is why I said they are not a headache.

[00:12:42]>> Their crime rate is so low.

[00:12:44]>> Absolutely.

[00:12:45]>> And how many people you find them in jails and prisons there. So this is the thing what I said. Now the thing is the practices the how the the friction is there because the Indians who go there are earning because of their hard work and talent.

[00:13:04]The fear is that we may be taking away their jobs >> and you go there in 10 years you become a millionaire you earn so well and you live and you are on par with many people in there. So this fear is there because of the success material success of the Indians otherwise no. Now how to balance it? This is where what I said the civilization ethos and cultural values or family values that should come in operation. That is >> we should how we can contribute to the host family host community >> host community. Yes, >> this is what we stress, we emphasize.

[00:13:49]See, you have an obligation to the host community, host society, host nation where you earn your bread.

[00:13:57]Your allegiance should not be questioned. [clears throat] Because you should show that by your behavior.

[00:14:04]>> Yes, >> of course, your connect with India is quite natural, obvious, it should be there. But at the same time you should also be concerned about the community around you where you are living have that connection serve them and I should during the pandemic you know fantastic thing our people have done >> to the local and food drives in both in England and in US >> our people are conducting food drives they are shelter homes >> and they are engaged in lot of such community service activities. ities which are beneficial to the local people also.

[00:14:42]>> Yes.

[00:14:43]>> So this is what is happening.

[00:14:45]>> I'm really glad you brought this up because apart from the pandemic situations I've got some statistics that if you look at the normal times for example the Jewish community for every dollar that a Jewish person gives the Indians give 5 cents. So the kind of contribution the philanthropic contribution to the society like food banks like you said um churches uh have these um you know the soup kitchens >> giving to the veterans the army veterans is much more among the Jewish community and very very little in the Indian maybe is that why there is that friction also >> this should be more according to their number >> and their earnings >> and we are emphasizing ing on that and it is increasing now.

[00:15:32]>> Yeah.

[00:15:32]>> See the first generation they were struggling for their own survival.

[00:15:35]>> Yes.

[00:15:36]>> And their own recognition. Now they are a confident community. When they are a confident community definitely they will be doing it. I have no doubt about it.

[00:15:43]>> So you would urge them to do more for the local for their community so that they gain acceptance because we don't want to end up with a situation where um the US government says that Indians are no longer welcome.

[00:15:54]>> H1B visa holders can go back.

[00:15:57]which representative has endorsed that did not go well and Indians in most part of the western countries particularly in sizable number where they are there in UK and US >> they are uh very much inclined to do something for the local community this is what I've seen >> and during my tour also I insisted the I met many HNI people.

[00:16:28]>> Mhm.

[00:16:28]>> And this was my first thing. One thing is the first thing was I said invest >> here in this community service.

[00:16:36]>> Sure.

[00:16:37]>> And also invest in uh other things like academics etc. So that uh >> you you earn and uh you >> give back to the community.

[00:16:46]>> Give back to the payback and build the society here >> and you you you should be a partner in the nation building.

[00:16:54]What did you tell the your hosts the American host for example or Germans about how India can provide some guidance to the best?

[00:17:03]>> Yeah, this is what I said. See the worldview of our philosophy 100 years ago Viveananda had said the same thing.

[00:17:13]One is a religious bigotry will not work and uh seeing the same divinity in everyone >> and all living and non-living beings.

[00:17:27]>> This is uh our basic philosophy. So that is why you have to that uh these things are inculcated through education through moral training in the families etc. So that human relation is very important and relation societ society in nature.

[00:17:46]So this uh should be given in practical capsules or festivals or many of our the so-called rituals they are not religious they are cultural >> in order to make the people understand they were put in the religious thing but actually there are very cultural for example I will tell you two things which our people have tried >> one is raandan raki >> see raki is not a religious thing it is a cultural thing >> another thing I'll tell you >> guru >> wandana we started >> that is as we do it in gurupulima >> that is the gurus our teachers are respected their respect should be shown all through the year >> but a program was arranged where the teachers the American teachers >> they were invited >> and our people touched their feet >> and showed their respect and gave give them some uh gifts >> like gurud dakina. So this was explained what is guru what is guru dakina why we are doing this guru mandana.

[00:18:53]>> Yeah invariably every teacher there was in in tears >> to get that respect from the students >> and the concept that we said that guru is not just for the school 3 years or four years >> you are our teacher for whole life. This is how we take it.

[00:19:11]>> Yeah.

[00:19:12]>> Guru is for whole life.

[00:19:14]>> So this was explained to them.

[00:19:15]>> Mhm. Mhm. So they they understood this is a fantastic thing. So these uh through these capsules was I said definitely you can spread the cultural values of bat.

[00:19:27]>> Yeah. It's also not fair to say that the entire western civilization is decadent.

[00:19:31]>> Not and we are the best and they are the worst.

[00:19:33]>> No no no this again this is supremacy.

[00:19:36]We should not always say we are the best and they are struggling. See there are lot of things we can learn from them.

[00:19:42]>> Yeah I was going to ask you what can we learn from them? I can for example let me just give me one uh 10 seconds I can think of a dozen things that we can learn from them discipline on the roads for example cleanliness respect for our fellow beings I mean we agree or not we have I believe that we don't treat our people who are below us in social strata very well >> dignity of labor >> dignity of labor which they do >> are these things that we can learn from them >> definitely see all these dozen things what you mentioned and >> perfectly right. See thing is uh one thing I should say this uh cleanliness and the public uh this on the roads for example >> yeah garbage etc. Unfortunately in both England and America the thing is slowly there is a decline they are also worried about it when I said about citizenship qualities civic sense they said we also want it that's what in England they said and it's true also see the thing is slowly the family values within British society also it is not as it was in the past >> so that they are also losing it they are also worried about when I mention this they said these are all universal things what you have told >> so whether it is a family values or citizenship qualities or social harmony >> social cohesion these things are the universal uh issues now >> but coming back to the learning part of it certainly see they have also built a society a nation on certain values definitely there are things to learn from them >> 100 years ago Viveandanda also was asked the question what is there for us to learn from them. He said organization we are not good in building institutions and organizations and they have done it.

[00:21:35]We should learn from them.

[00:21:36]>> He had told them so not only organization even see as you said see respecting elders >> and people who are pedestrians the people who are driving a vehicle. So generally people here in India we think that the bigger the vehicle the road belongs to them. Yeah. So this should change.

[00:21:59]>> They should change.

[00:22:00]>> So some this uh public etiquates.

[00:22:03]>> I want to ask you about the war that started this year. Iran war um and then there has been this Ukraine war going on for a long time. Uh we seem to be in the grips of a civilizational crisis. You know many people have uh termed the the Iran war in civilizational terms. Uh do you think um how do you see this war? Do you do you do you think that this is all about nuclear uh weapons or is it about wiping out a nation?

[00:22:38]>> See in last 30 years history you see the world's history there was no time there was absence of war.

[00:22:46]>> Okay.

[00:22:46]>> In any part some part of the world.

[00:22:48]>> Mhm.

[00:22:49]>> Wars, battles, skirmishes, conflicts, tensions have always been there. M >> there was a cold war for a long period.

[00:22:57]There was a war in Vietnam. There has been war in the Palestinian thing that it is going on in some other tensions.

[00:23:06]So wars are taking place and during Bush period there was Iraq Gulf War >> Gulf War.

[00:23:13]>> So wars are generally they take birth in the minds.

[00:23:21]>> It is explain. It is it is his. I was having a small lesson when I was going to school.

[00:23:28]>> What is a wicked thing that was the title of the lesson >> that wicked thing? It comes because of the wicked mind.

[00:23:36]>> So you want to amass something. You want to take some the hold of something which is not yours or you have become too greedy. So a nation, a society or a leadership becomes when one of the these things the wars break out.

[00:23:53]>> I think you just now said that Trump has a wicked mind and is greedy.

[00:23:56]>> I did not say >> okay >> when the persons have any anybody. I did not mention anybody's name.

[00:24:02]>> No, you did not.

[00:24:03]>> No. So but thing is a nation also the arrogance of a nation also can be possible. It is not only individuals. So that's why these things create wars. Now coming to the present west Asia war I think uh see many of the wars because of uh some commercial interest and geopolitics it is taking place uh 25 years back the book world challenge >> had predicted that there will be war because of the oil.

[00:24:37]>> Yeah. And some people are now predicting that there will be war for water.

[00:24:43]>> So that means we are not going to be free from wars even after if this war is over.

[00:24:48]>> Yeah.

[00:24:49]>> That means if this war is over and there is a war going to be there on water that means we will survive but definitely it will alter and it will have its influence on human life.

[00:25:02]The first world war and second world war because of the very nature of the wars they have given rise to many things.

[00:25:09]>> See from scientific advancement took place.

[00:25:11]>> Yeah.

[00:25:12]>> Some unification of some term some >> many European countries emerged some countries club then they became one and they tried all these things. Soviet Russia happened then Germany was divided. So wars create many things but the present war of West Asia >> is we should not think that it is between two countries.

[00:25:36]>> Okay.

[00:25:36]>> So it is the the thing is uh it is uh survival and uh occupation some approach to the whole human life. the world view that uh I should be the master of everything >> this won't uh >> is not tenable >> tenable it is it it is not going it is not tenable >> and that's why the presently some people say that whether it's a civilizational conflict which Samuel Huntington predicted >> as uh the conflict of civilizations >> conflict of civilizations so I don't think whether it has come because what Samuel Huntington predicted was on the religious lines of these though he said civilization >> he made Christian and Muslim world today all the Christian world is not with >> with country one country and >> and all the Muslims are not under one umbrella >> so that's why what professor Huntington has predicted are visualized may come true after some time at least today it is about oil and so these things >> yeah as of now but in the short term we are suffering India is also suffering >> definitely >> the prime minister has called for austerity measures yesterday again second time >> very much >> how do you see this panning out >> see austerity measure has been uh >> uh there earlier two prime ministers at least as I remember in my lifime time they had given call for the a measure one you know very well that is Lalbadur Shastri asked to skip one meal a week and particularly Monday.

[00:27:30]>> So that was a state measure and hotels used to be get closed voluntarily >> and many people for whole life they did not take meals on the Monday evening.

[00:27:42]See the prime ministers as leaders of the country calling for austerity measures is a thing that one has to take consideration of country's welfare and they have to do it >> and the present prime minister has also done it. It is a in the [clears throat] best interest of the country.

[00:28:00]>> Sure.

[00:28:01]>> Even in the absence of war the India's way of life it should be of simplicity and austerity.

[00:28:10]>> Yes. that that is that is a basic thing that we should uh >> observe and practice.

[00:28:15]>> However, at times of crisis and challenges, this should be embibed and it should be practiced by the and it is for the as we discussed community leaders and others also should go for this austerity thing.

[00:28:31]>> It is necessary. Now when uh oil is being imported when we are having so many other crisis austerity measures are required when there is a if there's a food security food crisis we have done it on Monday evening so now also we should practice it that's one thing now India [clears throat] can play a role because India's position in the last at least a decade or more >> has changed in the world app.

[00:29:03]>> So India is also heard, seen, recognized, respected.

[00:29:07]>> So that's why India can also play a role in uh appealing to the good senses of the countries and nations and leaders.

[00:29:16]>> Yeah. Yeah.

[00:29:17]>> So they can they they can play a role there >> and uh we should uh engage the people in positive debates and dialogue.

[00:29:29]Data G in the last one year India has faced many foreign policy challenges.

[00:29:35]You know after operation Synindur there was an concerted effort by the government to uh put out our narrative then there was a tariffs then then this uh West Asia crisis has RSS given any inputs to the government on how to deal with these crisis >> informally we discussed there's no RSS is not having any foreign policy think tank >> right >> but uh the doctrine that the prime minister is following has many such ingredients which uh are uh the basic uh thoughts of the worldview which RSS has been emphasizing which are basically of this uh country this land. So that's why if you go deep and there are quite good number of books which have come on the foreign policy things of the present prime minister as the doctrine >> and they have mentioned some of these things the people who are experts in the foreign that's why the I think he he knows those things well and uh he has been practicing RSS because we are not experts in the foreign policy affairs because We don't have a think tank of this kind.

[00:30:45]>> Okay.

[00:30:46]>> So we don't give any formal inputs >> or unsolicited advice.

[00:30:51]>> I don't say like that. The advisers are always expected and uh we are free to give the advice.

[00:30:59]>> Suppose the foreign minister were to come and ask you for advice on how to deal with the >> he doesn't come and ask advice. We can informally chitchat.

[00:31:06]>> We can informally give them >> informally chithat [laughter] and the such relation we maintain.

[00:31:11]>> Yeah. How do you how do you think we should uh I know you said you are not experts in foreign policy but Pakistan is almost like domestic policy for us.

[00:31:19]How do you think we should deal with Pakistan? How do we should we engage with Pakistan?

[00:31:25]>> See everything has been tried >> and more such efforts should go on. Atel tried to engage them in debate. He went to Lahore Bayas and many things have happened and uh our prime minister now also invited Pakistan ahead at the time of >> taking oath then he dropped himself in the wedding ceremony of the >> Pakistan's leader. Yeah. So all these things we have tried and see the if the Pakistanis pin pricks trying to give like in pulama etc. we have to answer wholesomely according to the situation because the security and selfrespect of a country nation has to be protected [clears throat] and the government of the day should take note of it and take care of it.

[00:32:25]But at the same time we need not close the doors.

[00:32:28]>> We should always be ready to engage them in a dialogue. That's why diplomatic relations are maintained.

[00:32:35]>> Okay.

[00:32:35]>> Trade and commerce goes on.

[00:32:37]>> Yeah.

[00:32:37]>> Visas are being given.

[00:32:40]>> So that that that we should not uh stop it but because there should be a window for always uh for a dialogue.

[00:32:49]>> What about sporting events then? Should they also not continue? Of course they they can continue at present uh because of Pakistan's uh adamancy many things are uh not being uh carried out >> there's a ban on cricket uh >> uh because of these things.

[00:33:11]>> Yeah. And after this um recent skirmishes operations Hindi had to take place because of the thing right from you see the relation I should say the turning point was uh 26 November Kasaba incident and the Mumbai incident.

[00:33:32]>> Yeah.

[00:33:33]>> Since then the peace period is uh very very less. we could not have although other things are continuing mutual confidence is still not uh completely there earlier we tried all those things but uh this can happen more and more Pakistan citizens understand and non-government actors in Pakistan if uh they raise these things like academicians >> okay >> sportsmen scientists >> community leaders ideas there they should come up with these things. So, so you're advocating continued uh relationship dialogue, >> political leadership and the military leadership >> has developed I think uh some uh this thing aversion to Indian politics >> whatever may be there I think I don't know this is one hope I think because I believe strongly that ultimately this civic society relations and uh because we have a cultural relation. We we we have been one nation.

[00:34:46]>> Yes.

[00:34:46]>> So that has to be emphasized by some people at least. So I am for one that that people of Pakistan particularly the civic society various institutions and these areas.

[00:34:59]>> Yeah.

[00:35:00]>> Uh if that goes on I think it will it can uh >> so you think that this is >> pave the way for a better >> pave the way for a better relation. So the perhaps this is the only way that uh relations between the two countries can improve on a >> people-to-people level >> that that should be tried more and more now >> that should be tried more and more.

[00:35:21]Yeah. You you said that we were one nation and this reminds me of what Bhagwat GI said at the centinary celebrations in August. He said that we are all people have the same DNA. You know whether you are Muslim or Hindu, Christian, Pakistani, Bangladesh, we are all the same Hindu.

[00:35:37]very um profound thought. So I was just wondering so if all of us share the same ancestry why is there so much controversy about love jihad for example why can't people of two faiths who have the same DNA fall in love >> if it is here pure love >> no question when it is jihad there is a question >> okay how do you define jihad >> you see thing is nobody has love jihad the term was used by some high court judge in some court So it is not our contribution.

[00:36:11]>> Mhm. Mhm.

[00:36:12]>> Thing is see two individuals have love then there is no religion nationality >> etc. So that love is pure.

[00:36:23]See in many families of the RSS >> people have married people belonging to different nationality.

[00:36:33]>> Sure.

[00:36:35]because it was love >> and we welcomed we celebrated we attended the weddings. So there is no such thing. But when this becomes an agenda and there is a planned conspiracy to take away Hindu girls >> then that that is a question and it causes friction >> then uh this DNA thing doesn't work because even even with that on DNA if somebody is hijacking a girl from some villager >> Leblon Muslims. I'm I'm not telling about Hindu Muslims.

[00:37:16]>> Even some person muscle man with his friends he >> kidnaps a girl kidnaps a girl >> from any community >> by any community. That is not all there.

[00:37:29]You cannot say we we belong to one DNA it's okay. [laughter] >> That is true.

[00:37:33]>> Yeah. That is that why it should be socially acceptable thing.

[00:37:37]>> Yeah.

[00:37:38]>> Love is not barred in a society. M so S is not against uh a love marriage between two faiths, two communities.

[00:37:45]>> I will tell you there are empty number of cases >> among soc >> who have married with different cast with other religions and other nationalities.

[00:37:56]>> Okay, >> we have not made it a >> publicity thing but we accept it as a natural thing. But the loud jihad which we are mentioning see it cannot be in such large number in a small area.

[00:38:11]>> Yeah. and uh happening in such a way that you go and see the in quotes it is announced every month so many people going so how it takes place >> yeah the reason I asked this question was >> and many girls have come back and they have told their sad stories >> and it is true there are around 20,000 cases which were documented so all these things cannot happen and love does it happen only one all Hindu girls.

[00:38:44]>> Yeah.

[00:38:44]>> And Muslim boys.

[00:38:48]>> So that means the love has only one dimension.

[00:38:54]Then it is not love.

[00:38:56]>> There is conspiracy.

[00:38:58]>> The one other statement that Bhagati had made which I found a little disturbing.

[00:39:02]He said that Hindus should have more children. The generally for a healthy family and a child to grow in a healthy atmosphere 2.2 per family the ATFR is generally universally accepted thing.

[00:39:15]>> 2.2. Yes.

[00:39:17]>> Yeah. So but it is less than two 1.8 1.6 in Kirana.

[00:39:22]>> Mhm.

[00:39:23]>> So he's not saying that we should have four children or something or like Hindu TFR should be four.

[00:39:28]>> When the second itself is a >> problem means it is not happening.

[00:39:33]>> [clears throat] >> uh telling fourth or fifth is not going to when they when they have the third we will try to say whether four is required or not at least now three even there are two three reasons one see family's future also if there is only one child one child norm >> then if something happens to the child at some age the parents what will happen to the parents >> in their old age one secondly if there is only single child that single child because of the all love and everything is poured on the child and the child develops with the in ego >> or the loneliness. Siblings, you all, me, yourself in our childhood because of the siblings we have learned.

[00:40:19]>> Yeah.

[00:40:19]>> This love, sharing, compassion, these values are inculcated because of our siblings and the child grows without a sibling.

[00:40:29]>> So it is having psychological problem or ego or loneliness. So that is why and family's health also and about the community and nation also. It We are creating economy. We are creating wealth. We are growing everything. But the future if the nation becomes a nation of the old people. What is happening in Japan today?

[00:40:53]>> It is aged Japan.

[00:40:54]>> But India being an ancient nation, it is an it's a young nation.

[00:40:59]>> And even after so thousands of years. So that's why we we should remain young as a nation.

[00:41:05]>> Mhm. Mhm.

[00:41:05]>> So that is possible only if you are having more progenies.

[00:41:08]>> Yeah. Yeah. I I'm going to ask you a question which I think uh you must have been asked in the US also that uh the Hindutwa philosophy of um of the S and it is a cultural identity that you want to create a Hindu nation it's a in a cultural sense but at the same time it creates some disqu and discomfort among minorities. How do you assure the minorities that they are safe in India?

[00:41:32]And when you talk about Hindutwa or Hindu nation, it is not in the religious sense but in a cultural sense. Vij this thing you >> one this question has been asked >> times >> times in last 50 75 years 100 years >> that because you say there is a fair what has happened >> nothing has changed >> no whether the Muslim number has come down >> it's gone up a little bit >> whether they had to flee whether they are treated as secondass citizens in any sa seak who are in BJ BJP and BJP rude states in Maharashtra, in Gujarat, in Madhya Pradesh, in Ajel, in Uttar Pradesh, whether the community the other religions people are second class citizens, >> whether the government schemes are not reaching them, >> what has happened.

[00:42:25]>> So let us uh address it with hard facts and realities.

[00:42:31]See the thing is unnecessarily fear is being created among that society by repeatedly raising this question by the people in the media and other places.

[00:42:46]thing is I'll tell you >> we have continuous dialogue with the leaders of the minority community whether it is Christianity one thing and we in RSS we say this very concept of religious minority in India is not on sound basis >> mhm >> when we say we are all one basically >> yeah same people >> same people same ancestry same DNA the question minority doesn't because you have changed the mode of worship >> change of religion has not changed your nationality.

[00:43:20]>> M >> that is what we believe. So when the nationality is one and we are ancestors are one we don't consider them as different >> okay >> the people who think that world is one family how can we differentiate with another religion not at all and just because somebody is practicing another religion is as far as the persons following that religion should not come in the way of other people who are following different faith.

[00:43:49]>> Yeah.

[00:43:50]>> Yeah.

[00:43:51]>> That is the whole thing. And now the we are not creating Hindu nation. This nation is a Hindu nation.

[00:44:02]>> We are not creating. See there was British Raj here, right?

[00:44:05]>> Yeah.

[00:44:06]>> It was British Raj. It was a British state.

[00:44:09]>> Then also this was Hindu nation.

[00:44:12][laughter] It was not British nation.

[00:44:16]So during the British period whether as a nation, what nation it was? Was it a British nation?

[00:44:23]>> No, it was not. Of course, >> not at all. So this nation state concept and the nation concept, this should be comprehensively debated and understood in the academics and the intellectual world of India.

[00:44:40]This confusion persist.

[00:44:44]nation states after the French revolution the nation states are the uh borders of the geographical borders is one nation it's one state and there's one government and there's one thing India's experience is different >> that's why when you said there are two nations then I was little I I wanted to say no nationwise we are one there are two different states or three states >> Bangladesh and this thing in till 40. So when we were so nation cannot be divided like that.

[00:45:18]>> Same thing about Germany also east and west >> it was a German nation.

[00:45:22]>> Yeah.

[00:45:23]>> There were two states because of political ideology.

[00:45:26]>> Yeah.

[00:45:27]>> And they came together >> again.

[00:45:29]>> My mistake. I should not have said nation but two states three or [clears throat] four states that time.

[00:45:33]So that the that's why >> the religious groups in here whom you call religious minorities >> they have no experience of being secondass citizens number one >> and within RHS there are number of people who are from these religious groups.

[00:45:52]>> Mhm.

[00:45:52]>> Who are sasaks?

[00:45:53]>> Muslims.

[00:45:54]>> They have not become showpieces for us.

[00:45:56]>> Muslims.

[00:45:56]>> Yes. Of course.

[00:45:57]>> Christians. Oh, >> I can give the names. You can go and check.

[00:46:00]>> Okay. Uh the number may be less. M >> they remember it less even in surva where Gandhi >> G was all for Hindu Muslim Brotherhood >> Gandhi G established servoa how many Muslims are there >> why they are not there >> true >> may be may be as you said anti-Muslim >> surv is not anti-Muslim right >> fair enough >> so we we we we have to go to the roots of these issues So that's why thing is uh it is not uh the question is not to be posed to the RSS question is to be posed to the Muslim leadership.

[00:46:45]I was just going to come to that. It's a good opportunity. Assadin Oi has very recently just after the Bengal election results has said that the time is now has come for Muslims to form their own leadership in the sense that they should form their own party because they are not getting justice in a secular India >> that is left to him. And how >> does that benefit you? How how people of his own religion are going to respond to that is it to be seen. I don't know. But the thing is >> the nationalist leadership among Muslims >> which was there during the freedom struggle >> and slowly after the creation of Pakistan and the because of the political change and the pseudocular things policies followed in India >> the nationalist leadership among the Muslims has become a rare commodity that is the problem. Yeah, >> there are but they are not supported.

[00:47:47]>> You had to be a separatist person. Then only the community supports.

[00:47:54]>> So you don't think there's a need as OC says there's no need for the Muslims to have their own leadership. They can >> leadership right. The every community can have that leadership. Political parties need not be on the bas of religions.

[00:48:09]>> Need not be or should not be. See the Indian constitution uh permits any combination that is why I cannot say it should not be but uh the thing is if uh it is followed on the base of religion >> then all these things are >> so there are many political parties who follow certain faiths in Kerala there are some Christian oriented parties there >> sik sikism there is a party So there the I that's why I don't say it should not be there because the constitution provides thing as long as they follow certain things according to the representative of people's act >> a political party can be formed >> so there is a Muslim league also there was the Hindu Mahas Sabha also so thing is whether we can have a consensus on certain national issues about our nationality about of nation's foundational values.

[00:49:14]>> Mhm.

[00:49:15]>> Which even Javaran Nehu or Samuranji or Mahatma Gandhi G everybody those who were in political field I'm not speaking about Marsha Arabind or Viveand who are in spiritual field people who are in political field >> they had accepted that there are certain basic foundational views of our country that is what Janeru also said while addressing Alar Muslim University students.

[00:49:42]Yeah.

[00:49:43]>> So these issues have to be uh properly understood. That's why in the name of secularism we have thought discussing any of these things current religion is a anatma. It is stigma. So that that should not there >> right. I earlier we talked about the Hindu nation and the Hindu raashtra. Uh related to that question is a statement just made today a few hours ago by Udanidi Stalin. He again has said that Sanadan Dharm should be eradicated.

[00:50:18]See at the end of his speech on the floor of the house it is maiden speech as leader of opposition.

[00:50:25]He said widam etc. They said the slogan and the last sentence was this >> that is his opinion and people have answered it in the elections.

[00:50:43]>> So but one thing see sanatana will not go because somebody says ultimately what is sanatana?

[00:50:54]See because I feel there should not be light or I feel there should not be shadows.

[00:51:01]It won't go.

[00:51:03]Sanatana is the spirit and soul of this nation. Sanatana is not a religious practice.

[00:51:11]Sanatana is a value, a world view.

[00:51:14]Sanatana is a as we were discussing in science and what is sanatana?

[00:51:19]Sanatana is that which is eternally there. Eternal that eternity is sanatana. That it is like a tree. A bunny tree is there.

[00:51:34]Even after 100 years, 200 years the bunnan tree stands there. So whether banan tree is old, yes you say it's old because its trunk is old, its roots are deeper. It's and it roots are strong and deeper but it's uh every season it's having new leaves new flowers >> so it lives >> so as long as it gets the new flowers and new leaves sprouting >> so that tree is fresh ever fresh so sanatana is that that is the nityana and puratana that is it is ever fresh and always ancient So it is a fantastic combination that is what our civilization is. We have memories of our civilization memories thousands of years old, millennia old civilization memories. But because of that we are not saying that we don't accept or welcome AI >> or new technology [clears throat] or the newer things of life.

[00:52:39]>> We welcome, we cherish, we enjoy, we celebrate.

[00:52:44]So that is sanatana and which this gentleman is also doing he is practicing sanatana >> thing is what is sanatana unfortunately you might not have understood it >> I see so sanatana is >> he thinks sanatana is upperccast maybe I don't know I have not met him >> but it is for everybody >> it is for the whole world >> yeah Yeah, >> Marsh Arabindu said Sanatna is the nationality of this country. This is what Marabindu said in his uttapada speech. Mhm.

[00:53:23]>> That's why sanatana is the basis and it expresses through for example the Hindu values this the truth and the eternal principles which sanatana is is manifested expressed in the Hindu values.

[00:53:44]>> Okay. Okay. I have a question about the Bengal elections. Spectacular results.

[00:53:50]No one expected it. At least the journalists who claim to know everything did not expect it. How much role did the Swam Seworks have in the victory of BJP?

[00:54:00]>> As citizens they did everything.

[00:54:02]>> Okay.

[00:54:03]>> As belonging to a particular uh philosophy which we have been uh propagating and trying to live up.

[00:54:12]Yes, we our sim se at the receiving end for uh quite number of years earlier during the communist uh regime and then the TMC regime. So because uh what we were doing has been legal constitutionally right thing we have been doing like we are doing in any other part of the country. But uh Sak because they were saying about the sanatana hindu etc and also they were conducting shakas >> creating patriotic national people. So lot of hurdles and attacks and uh so many actions were being taken by government or government supported or the party supported things. M >> so we our people have suffered and it was a struggle. It was a struggle not by only it was a struggle by the entire Hindu society.

[00:55:13]>> So that's why every Hindu voter became a Hindu worker in Bengal.

[00:55:21]>> So that is why this it was a civilizational question and the results were uh as you said it was unprecedented unexpected such thing. It was a tsunami.

[00:55:32]All these things it is true.

[00:55:35]>> So because when you pushed you are pushed to the wall you are going to hit back.

[00:55:42]>> Is it true that the um swam se came out in large numbers and provided security or reassurance to the >> we have tried to to to our best of our strength and capacity. We have done it in the postpull >> uh violence uh in five years back.

[00:56:00]>> Yeah. when there was a thing I myself had visited two three places where things were seems works are not a we are not an army we out of our uh the love for society and spirit for community service >> our people have also rallied the other people who are like-minded >> who want to do something and And that is why of course we try to provide uh safety and security to the suffering people wherever it happen.

[00:56:37]>> Okay. That is something unusual >> including some uh people who who may not be our organizing people.

[00:56:42]>> Okay.

[00:56:43]>> Who may not be even Hindus >> many time that also may happen >> right. Um in the last few years we have seen that many of the BJP ruled uh chief minister states chief ministers have not been from RSS. Suenden Alikari is one.

[00:56:58]Samra Chadri, hima Biswas Sharma. Does that bother you or does that give you uh great pleasure that more more chief ministers are coming into RSS for maybe happy MJP is growing >> and that means it is accepted.

[00:57:14]Of course they will they understand the RSS also slowly there is no problem and every every even even in RSS also new people come no >> not necessarily everybody joins RSS only when they are school kids >> right >> there are many people who join the RSS at the later age >> so would you encourage these three chief ministers to join RSS >> see they are as good as in RSS because they are in the ideological family of the RSS >> true so they don't necessarily you have to formally sign the membership.

[00:57:46]>> There is no formal membership at all in RSS. Even I have not taken a formal membership. [laughter] RSS is a family setup thing. So that is why here whoever enters in family a daughter-in-law who comes into the family need not to fill a >> fill a form >> form she naturally becomes one of family.

[00:58:07]>> I don't know if Suendo Diari would like to be called daughter-in-law more like a >> proud son. Proud son, a prodical son who has returned after a long absence. Yeah.

[00:58:17]Yeah.

[00:58:18]D I'm going to ask you a very personal question. I know you suffered greatly during emergency time. Can you just tell us how it reshaped your thinking? I think those days are over now and uh of course the lessons of emergency should be told to the every generation >> and people who have not seen emergency who have not seen like we have not seen the freedom struggle. So we were told how it was and empty number of books have come and it is also told as the part of curriculum and the emergency also should be included in some way or the other in the curriculum because it was the darkest period of the democracy in independent India.

[00:59:03]>> So that's why it should be told to the people >> and how the fundamental rights were suspended and what happened. So these things many of the today's generation the people they don't know so that should be told and the suffering part of it of course it was there in the lockups and jails in many part of the country that has been repeatedly explained I don't want to elaborate on that of course it is not uh that uh uh when the emergency was clamped these things should happen that was that might not have been the idea Yeah. To suppress the thing is some people took the undue advantage of the situation.

[00:59:47]>> Mhm.

[00:59:48]>> That's why you see when all power is given to the >> the local authorities >> authorities then it will be misused.

[00:59:59]Power corrupts absolute power corrupts absolutely >> then and even now >> anytime.

[01:00:06]>> True. Lastly, am I talking to the next sarang chalak >> that you should ask the saranga chalak?

[01:00:14]>> Oh god, god no.

[01:00:18]>> But that should be the logical uh >> in SA we don't we don't have the practice of thinking about the next sanga chalik.

[01:00:26]>> True D. Thank you so much for the time.

[01:00:28]Nam. Thank you. Namaste.

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