Our Kids Need Help w/ Remington Holt | The Debrief

Indexado: 2026-05-22

[00:00:00]Now, if you're not ready, then go ahead and tell me you're not ready.

[00:00:03]>> I object to you getting records. You've been intrusive into people's personal lives.

[00:00:08]>> I'm not a lawyer, but >> I'm not a lawyer, but >> the debrief.

[00:00:20]>> Hello and welcome to another episode of I'm not a lawyer. But >> the debrief. I am Melanie aka I'm not a lawyer but and I'm joined by my co-host >> GB. How y'all doing?

[00:00:31]>> We are not lawyers or legal experts but we debrief about legal topics and that's what we fa to do today.

[00:00:38]>> Yes. um a few top we have a guest today but before the guest joins us uh I want to cover a few things that are kind of happening right uh now we I always say we filmed this on Wednesdays it gets released on Fridays and so by the time this releases we'll probably be in the midst or have already gotten a full update on Alicia Andrews because again she has a hearing on Friday with her new judge she'll be in front of her new judge and that judge will decide if she gets a new trial, which is what her team has been arguing. She deserves a new trial because Cisco, Judge Cisco was her trial judge. Judge Cisco was biased.

[00:01:17]Judge Cisco was removed from her tri her case, did not have the opportunity to sentence her. And so, they are arguing in a very basic sense. Y'all see she was biased. She got kicked off. So, clearly what made her biased were some of her rulings. If she made biased rulings, I should be allowed a new trial with a new judge who's not going to give me biased rulings. And let's see what the verdict is if we do that. It is not a um a lot of people commented and said how dumb that is. Let me uh argue that it's not dumb because she can't be sentenced no worse than she can right now. The most she can be convicted of is manslaughter. She's already been convicted of that. So, she goes to trial. She actually is either going to be found guilty of manslaughter or not guilty. Instead of the first trial, she could have been found guilty of first-degree murder, conspiracy to commit first-degree murder, or seconddegree murder or manslaughter. She got manslaughter. So, this is actually what lawyers do is what you would want your lawyer to do. Um, who knows if if it goes her way, if if the judge is going to say new trial or not, but her whole point is if the judge was biased and made biased rulings, I should have a new trial with a fair judge who's not going to make biased rulings. And let's see if we get the same verdict.

[00:02:39]>> And it's only up from here for her. It's It can't get worse.

[00:02:44]>> It can't get She's either going to get convict if she gets a new trial. She's either going to get convicted and get the max >> or she gets a new trial and it she could still get the max. Who knows? So, the judge will either >> say new trial or say not. Um and if she says no new trial, which is also very could happen. Okay, let's be realistic about this. That could the judge could be like, "Girl, all right, no, you your conviction is fair and square. You're being sentenced today." So, if she denies the request for a new trial, she gets sentenced on Friday. We will write into sentencing. We will hear um words from Fio, probably Fio's mom. The letter probably will be read. Uh Alicia's family, uh friends and family will pro probably I don't know for c sure, but we'll probably hear from her family and then the judge will give her ruling if it goes that way. So, those are the options for Friday. No one knows which way it's going to go. We'll see how it goes.

[00:03:48]>> I want to give my prediction.

[00:03:50]>> Go ahead.

[00:03:51]>> I think there's not going to be a new case.

[00:03:53]>> I don't think so.

[00:03:54]>> New trial.

[00:03:55]>> A new trial.

[00:03:55]>> I don't think so.

[00:03:56]>> Yeah.

[00:03:57]>> Um I don't think she going to get new trial, but we'll see. We'll see what the judge says.

[00:04:03]>> And there's your production. We'll check back in on Friday and see if we were wrong or right. Um moving on to I made a video on Chudu Builder. I actually had waited a while to make that video. I had been getting a lot of comments asking me how come I haven't made the video yet.

[00:04:19]And because number one, I don't I never came across that man's content ever. I'm not familiar with him. Had never been familiar. And so I was like, "Okay, he he shot like I I didn't know the >> significance behind."

[00:04:36]>> Yeah. I hadn't It was like annoying, you know? It was like this is like a disgusting story. like why should I even highlight somebody who wants to be highlighted for doing this kind of crap like I don't want to add to that. Um, and so anytime I find myself feeling that way about something that has like taken over the internet and people are like, "Hello, where's your video?"

[00:04:55]Right? Um, if I'm if I do that, then by the time I make my video, which be a week later, I try to find some piece of information that of all the coverage, maybe there's something that hasn't been said or you aren't familiar with. So, when I wait, I try to dig and find something that people will be like, "All right, she waited a long time, but whatever. At least I learned something from her video. And so I made the video last night after I had done a little bit more research to understand who the heck this man is and why people care.

[00:05:26]>> What I did realize though is he he was not like this. Ma the reason a lot of us hadn't heard from him is because he wasn't massive. He was massive in his area. Like the people in I think it's Clarksville, Tennessee.

[00:05:40]>> They know him. They are familiar with him. He was very well known in that area and obviously like that begins to grow but and and a few of his videos also have gone viral right and so he wasn't like m even when you I say all of that to say when I was looking at his numbers so I'm like on social media and he's not on some of the platforms but when you look at his numbers it's like oh you're not like a million you know what I'm saying like uh followers >> he's not like that and >> he's literally just I would say within the month.

[00:06:14]>> I would say the month.

[00:06:15]>> Oh, >> where uh he started like blowing up blowing up. That's when within the month that's when I saw it. I was like, who is this white boy calling?

[00:06:26]>> Yes. And that's Yes.

[00:06:27]>> And then that after I saw it, it just kept coming coming and just new cases after new cases. Um >> I didn't I didn't know he was on social media for two years. So that's on social media for two years saying that >> from from he first his first video it seems from the research I was able to do his first >> video where he where the girl recorded him and posted it on the Facebook group was in 25 I think.

[00:06:58]>> So it's I I mean it it hasn't been very long but it's like he became like it's his villain origin story. So, he became like a legit villain and started doing this obnoxious racist crap. Um, so anyway, I say all that to say I made the video and I'm already annoyed with everything about that's my other problem with making those kind anytime you make videos. Um, >> I hate the commentary that comes along with it. You know what I'm saying? It's a lot of people, white people if we're being honest, right? It's white people saying that I'm an idiot saying I I don't know what I'm talk like I've deleted so many comments and it's just annoy anytime I know I'm making content about something like this I know that it comes with that's just the reality of the internet it comes with commentary that's just comments that's annoying to read but then on the flip side when I make content about Julio Foolio it's commentary from a lot of the same people and others who are like this is why black people are terrible and so that's just annoying because that's Not it's it's just annoy the point is it's annoying and Chud the builder's case is annoying and I wish no good things for him and when he goes to the bond hearing I hope they say no and when he goes to the prelim hearing it's going to go to trial like that's that's what's going to happen. Let's move on to a quick update.

[00:08:17]Something I forgot to make a video on which is uh Romeica Meeks. Romika Meeks is the Chicago woman who was killed last September 25 um after she dropped her sevenyear-old son I think he was six or seven off at school. She drops her son off. She's leaving the school. She makes a Uturn and stops right where the father of her son and his new girlfriend um are. And they are kind of doing a car exchange.

[00:08:49]She stops. An altercation ensues. And the new girlfriend, whose name is uh Cuadasia, but they call her Holly. Holly pulls out her weapon, ends up killing Roikica Meeks. Right. They're both they at the time they were 31 years old.

[00:09:02]>> Mhm.

[00:09:03]>> So Roma has died and Holly is now charged with first-degree murder. After the incident, Holly ends up um so months later she gets charged. She doesn't get charged immediately. She gets charged much later and she tries to get a bond.

[00:09:18]Her bond gets denied. And of course, we know when a judge is considering bond, they consider if you're a flight risk, they consider if you're a dangerous community, um you going to show up, all these kind of things. Um and the judge found her to be all of those things. So said you get no bond. Yeah. So that's what So the judge said all of those things you saying and she's pregnant, right? Uh Holly is pregnant.

[00:09:43]So her team, Holly's team appealed, >> okay, >> um to the appellet court and the appellet court about a month ago came back and said, >> "You wrong trial court or circuit court.

[00:09:57]Y'all need to have another hearing and you need to reconsider terms in which she can be released because we don't believe." Now, it was majority, okay?

[00:10:06]because there was one opposing um opinion, but the majority of the appellet court said she's not a a risk because if she was, she killed the girl in September and got charged in >> December, >> if she was of flight risk or whatever, and she wouldn't have been cooperating with you guys that whole time. So, we don't believe she's actually a fight flight risk circuit court. And then secondly, um we don't think she's a danger to the community. That h that was an isolated incident. It was particularly her and this woman. They have a history. Holly had actually went through the courts to get a restraining order against Romika Meeks that was put in place.

[00:10:52]>> There is a clear isolated incident that happened here. She's not a danger to anyone else. She had an issue with this person essentially is what they're saying. So they tell the circuit court, you have another hearing and y'all need to reconsider what are the terms for her to be released.

[00:11:09]>> But then the state said, I everybody wait. So the state appealed to the Illinois Supreme Court. Goodness.

[00:11:16]>> And so because they are appealing to the Supreme Court, everything stays in motion. So she still has to be locked up pre-trial detention until the Supreme Court makes a ruling. Um, now like I said, the appellet court that order is from the majority. One of the judges on the court said she is a flight risk. She is a danger to the community. She did this in the middle of the day. She did this across the street from a school.

[00:11:41]This is very dangerous, very reckless.

[00:11:42]She needs to be um confined. She need to be she needs to stay in jail until her trial. So, I just the opinion was really interesting. reading it was really interesting because I thought they I thought it it raised good points. Um but they're appealing. So I I'm very curious actually how the Supreme Court the Illinois Supreme Court is going to rule on this issue. I'm so curious what they're going to decide.

[00:12:09]>> Well, whatever they decide is it does it trump everything? Like whatever they want is what's going to happen.

[00:12:15]>> Well, I mean they can they can order they can reverse. Yeah.

[00:12:18]>> Okay. They I mean they're big dogs >> cuz to your point, what's her history? She's not a criminal.

[00:12:27]>> No, she doesn't have a history. That's what I'm saying. So that's what they were saying in the She's not I think she had one like like a driving infraction situation that was possibly on her record, but like nothing there. She is not like a felon. There's no, you know, nothing like that. Um so that's what they were arguing. Uh again, I am very curious what the Supreme Court is going to say.

[00:12:51]I'm also very I want the trial to happen because for me, one of the biggest questions um Sweet July says no bond in Illinois. And I'm actually like you're right. Actually, I remember this. Um but one of the questions I have, one of the things that is interesting for me in that particular case is that there are documented threats from Roma to Holly and that is what prompted Holly, right?

[00:13:29]Their interactions, their back and forth, these phone calls. Um yes, you're right. It's no cash bail. You're right.

[00:13:34]Thank you. Um Sweet July, in Illinois, there's no cash bail. there is bon um but if there is a documented history between you and I I have expressed to the courts this person has me in fear this person has scared me so much so that I'm asking you to put a order a restraining order in place to protect me from this person if that is the documented history of the relationship between these two people and what ends up h Romika came to the first hearing for the restraining order she didn't come to the last hearing ing and so the order was put in place. But she came to the first one. So she knew this was requested.

[00:14:15]If that is all well and good and everybody knows that, I find it interesting that as she's leaving and she makes this U-turn and she pulls over, um I'm I'm just very curious about all of the details because I think that background is very um key to this this kind of case. So I I'm not making judgments on either side. I'm just looking forward to the facts coming out and because there are so many witnesses who don't all say the same thing. One witness says they fist bumped, right?

[00:14:47]Fist bumped her um Holly and and baby daddy fist bumped afterwards. I'm like that is weird. But then another shooting.

[00:14:55]>> Yeah. After she shot her. But then another witness says that uh when Rama stopped her car and pulled up, she said, "I told you I was going to catch you."

[00:15:06]that is interesting and not some you know so all these different witnesses and they have different they have varying opinions they also have different viewpoints of what they saw that day.

[00:15:18]>> Yeah.

[00:15:19]>> So looking forward to that one kind of being flushed out um and what the Illinois Supreme Court is going to say about Holly Ginbong. though the other thing uh before our guest last thing that comes before our guest um joins us and that is the case of uh Ebony Parker. So, a while ago, the civil trial for Ebony Parker, and quick refresher, is 23 24, I think. 24. I'm going off top of my head right now, notes. Um, the first grader, it was all over the news. A first grader was the youngest kind of school shooting, let's call it, um, because it was a six-year-old who shot his teacher. Uh, she lived, she ended up getting shot in the hand and in the chest. And so last year that case went to trial for the civil trial. The teacher sued the vice principal, her name is Ebony Parker, for being aware, being informed that the student had a gun and basically doing nothing. So she was sued basically for her inaction.

[00:16:22]That trial ended up um with the teacher Aby's Werner winning. Okay. So Ebony Parker was held liable, right? Was held liable for what happened that day.

[00:16:35]But in addition to being sued for money civily, Ebony Parker is also facing criminal tr uh charges. So her criminal trial started this week, started yesterday. Today is Wednesday, started on Tuesday. Um and let me tell you, it is terrible. It is the worst. I hate that trial. I hate her attorneys.

[00:17:03]And I hate to say it out loud, but her attorneys, >> oh my god. Oh my.

[00:17:09]>> It's so bad. I'm trying. I wanted to do just one video at the end. I was like, I'm not going to do dailies on this in general. That's how I went into it, but once it started, I said, "Oh, hell no.

[00:17:19]I'm not doing no This is so >> Is it that bad?"

[00:17:23]>> It is so bad. Oh my gosh. I it infuriates me because so she again is being charged for her inaction, for her being aware that this child had a gun and having the authority and the power to do something and doing nothing. And her attorney, he objected. Let me tell you when I got pissed yesterday. This man objected to hearsay hearsay hearsay.

[00:17:51]The whole time the Commonwealth is is questioning the the witnesses. He your honor he hearsay and then when on cross- examination he gonna elicit some hearsay. Boy why would you piss me off because we just went through this whole thing. They just you just listen to him say and his objections it's it's not it's like he's he he is preventing things from happening but then he needs them out and so it's it's not it's very disruptive today.

[00:18:25]So there is a what >> what are her charges for not stepping into neglect? Like child neglect neglect.

[00:18:31]>> Yeah. Be so and I think she she has eight counts. Um she I believe has eight counts and that's because of how many bullets were in the gun. So she got a charge for each one.

[00:18:41]>> Um eight counts of felony child abuse is actually in disregard for life. One for each bullet in the child's gun. So actually it's not neglect, it's felony child abuse. Um, and so again, one for each bullet in the gun. And so today, here's what happened that made me upset.

[00:19:02]>> They are there's a video. So after the shooting, >> Dr. Ebony Parker does a interview with the HR like director for the district or whatever. And it's a Zoom, so it's recorded interview. And so the attorney is only the Commonwealth. It's like a 30 minute interview and he has drilled down certain parts that he wants to have admitted. Um and but before you enter any piece of evidence, the person on the stand has to like authenticate it. Is this what I'm saying it is? Yes. Is it as you remember it? Does it appear altered or changed in any way? Is it a This person says yes. That's the authentication. After it's authenticated, you are then allowed, right, to play or do whatever that you want. Now, um because of the rule of completeness, obviously, like you know, the other side can add the rest in or so or have the whole thing played, whatever, but it's like a 30 minute interview and her attorneys are objecting to her authenticating it. And he's like, "No, she need they need to play the whole video for her to authenticate it." And he's like, "No, like if I just showed her a picture that that's usually enough for her to be like, "Oh yeah, that's from the Zoom I did with her. That's I I know those are the clothes I had on. That's how I re you know what I'm saying?" Like, "Yes, that's what it is." And he's like, "No, you got to play the whole video for her to be able to authenticate that is really it." And it's like, "Now that's a waste of time. This trial is supposed to last 4 days. That would be such a waste of time." and then that he only wanted to play the clips and her attorney is like, "Play the whole thing." For the jury, too. They're going to be able to take it to the back with them. And if you've watched it, you if there are pieces you want played, you have the right to have those played. Wh why why we have to watch the video two times? It's gonna be 60 minutes of >> now. I don't know. Um, it sounds like their attorney, her attorney is trying to um prevent her from agreeing or authenticating something in that video in this section and then something happens in this section and it's like, well, you you said this was correct. How would that be wrong if you found this correct? So, he's trying to No, I want to see the entire thing. So the judge, well, here's the problem. As her attorney, if that's injured into evidence, you should have already watched the whole thing anyway. So if there is something in there that isn't accurate, you should have objected to it already. But secondly, the attorney told her >> while you were on the stand, if this is played and you notice anything that does not jive with what you remember h happened, >> please say, she said it to her like three times and he's like, no, no. I'm like, >> boy. So anyway, I have it is a trial that has annoyed me also because I have a lot of mixed feelings about it. That's my truth. People may not like that, but I do. Um, so I'll do a recap at the end, but that is a try. It's moving very slowly. It's very I have a lot of thoughts, but yeah.

[00:22:20]>> Anyway, okay. So, as I said at the beginning of the episode, we have a guest today that we are so excited. Uh, new to this pod. Um he works in education and because of the Julio Fulio trial that you know I was covering we talked about on the podcast um we decided it would be good to just kind of get a teacher's perspective get some insight into what you know he has experienced in his years of teaching.

[00:22:46]Obviously he is just one teacher we're having. I'm sure there are plenty more who have a ton of different um perspectives, but this is a conversation that we are um very very excited to have. So, with that, we are bringing up Remington. There we go. Hello again, sir.

[00:23:02]>> Hello. Hello. Thank y'all for having me on the pod. I'm so happy to be here.

[00:23:08]>> Thank you for being here. Um so, to start off and kind of get the audience acquainted with you, just let us know um who you are, what you do, how long you've been doing it, um all of that jazz.

[00:23:18]Okay. Um, so my name is Remington Holt.

[00:23:22]I am I I call just call myself an education professional. I've done some of everything. So my undergrad is in elementary education and child psychology or like human development and then I also did a minor in like organizational development and my master's is in special ed K through 12.

[00:23:42]And so um I have been a teacher. My mom's a teacher, my grandma's a teacher.

[00:23:47]I come from a long line of teachers. Um, and so I started out in the classroom. I taught for about 10 years and then I left the classroom and started my own education consulting firm. um specifically working on like school change because I recognized kind of at the level that I was at. I was able to have impact with my particular students, but there were so many things wrong with the system of school that like I felt like I was fighting two or three battles all the time. And I'm like, somebody has to do something to make school function differently for people like me for my impact to actually go as far as it can go as a teacher. And so, um, I have been an entrepreneur and a founder of Remington Consulting for the last eight years, maybe nine this year. Um, and so I've done consulting around equity and inclusion and school change. I'm based here in Nashville, uh, Tennessee, where we get Chud the Builder and all the >> man.

[00:24:54]>> I don't know. No, I don't know that man.

[00:24:57]I I know many men like him. I don't know. I don't know that man. Um, but there's a bunch of there's a bunch of chs around here. Um, so been in the school system ever since uh here in Nashville. And that that's me.

[00:25:13]>> All right.

[00:25:13]>> I would like to say thank you. your mom and your grandma for their service.

[00:25:18]>> Amazing.

[00:25:19]>> Because being a teacher, >> that's that's a job right there, bro.

[00:25:24]>> It's a that's a job and a half.

[00:25:26]>> Yeah.

[00:25:27]>> Um Okay. So, I don't even know where to start, child. Maybe we start with Sean's story and then we kind of go out from there. Um Okay. So, one of the things I think we saw a lot and a lot of people had a lot of commentary on was how someone like Sean Gathight who we saw had a a male figure come from the education world who was in his life trying to mentor him, went on trips with him, um he got to travel the world, lived in different places. uh how he would be able to get caught up in something like this despite having the support, the opportunity, and the structure, right? How someone can get caught up in this. And not that you have to have the absolute answer, but just from your perspective and your experience, if you've seen something like that happen, like what would you say impacts or like contributes to something like that happening?

[00:26:22]>> Yeah. Um, and can I give a little bit more background on how I can speak a little bit more to um the the full landscape of teaching and human behavior. And so like, okay, so I went to uh Vanderbilt for my undergrad and at the time it was the number one education school in the United States. And so and I think it still is. And so like a big part of my undergrad was that we were in the classroom from our sophomore year. And so like I was teaching in undergrad and in addition like Vanderbilt is a research university. So there are these other kind of avenues that you can take as kind of like add-ons to your degree.

[00:27:05]So you can kind of study little micro areas that make you more specialized.

[00:27:11]And so like I have a very niche specialized lens in like behavior science. And then with my masters being special education, I also understand like students with disabilities and they they teach you more of like about home systems and stuff like that when you're in the special ed track. And so um that background colors a little bit of my like more human approach to people and to kids. And so somebody like Sean's story, um, when we think about what it is that motivates all humans, there is this psychological theory called Maslo's hierarchy of needs. Are you familiar with that, Mel? Have you heard of it?

[00:27:54]>> No.

[00:27:54]>> Um, so it's so it's a little pyramid thing that I I had a picture pulled up.

[00:28:00]If you want to Google it on the side, you can. But it's a little pyramid.

[00:28:03]Maslo M- L. It's this little pyramid that shows us how human needs stack on top of each other. And so like the first most basic need is that people need food, shelter, like they need their physical needs provided for. The second set of needs above that is you need psychological and physical safety. So you need to feel like you live somewhere safe. You have all the things that you need to make it through the day XYZ. And then from there, like the needs get less concrete and more things like self-esteem, status in the world, like what things am I good at, what kind of awards and accolades have I gotten, XYZ.

[00:28:47]And so I think the thing that makes Shawn story stand out is that we normally think about kids involved in like gang activities, we think of them as not having the first two rungs of the pyramid met. And so it's like, yeah, when you live in a low uh in uh community of limited resources or there's a lot of violence going on around you, of course, you learn that whoopde whoopde-woop. And but also like the truth about behavior is that all behavior is the expression of an unmet need. And so the reason that Sean's story kind of like bends our mind is that you're like, well, if he's got all these the thing the major things, what could he possibly need? And the answer is still everything else on this chart.

[00:29:42]So we can assume if he's from a suburban life, his physiological needs are met.

[00:29:47]He's probably not going hungry every day. Like, and we're making some assumptions, but let's just let's make them for this example. we can assume if he lives in a nice neighborhood, he's safe. Like he's not around, gun violence, he's traveling, he's seeing the world. And so like my first thought when I heard Sean's story, I immediately skip over those two wrongs. And I think from a behavior perspective, okay, he was either missing love and belonging, self-esteem, or self-actualization. And self-actualization, like most people never get there. Like it's this very lofty thing. Oh, I'm operating in my purpose and I'm a perfect everything. Like no, like it's not real. It's just an aspiring thing.

[00:30:27]But love and belonging and self-esteem are real. And so I when I have encountered students who have those first two rungs met, when you talk to them, you will get an idea and an understanding of what they lack in those other two spaces. And so like while I can't speak to Sean, like I've not had a conversation with him. I don't know how he feels about these things. But what we know about young people is that once they hit that teenage years from 16 to 18, 20, 25, there is nothing more important than love and belonging and self-esteem or status. And so like if I had to guess at a reason how Shawn ends up here with all the things that he is being provided, I think it makes him a prime example of flying under the radar as someone who has other needs.

[00:31:23]>> Got it.

[00:31:23]>> And maybe those folks he was running with met that need, you know.

[00:31:29]>> First of all, you just broke that down so good. Oh my goodness.

[00:31:34]that chart you >> sometimes in my video and I'm like y'all following. I wanted to be like we following we got we got >> Thank you for that. That was really you broke that down really well in a way that makes sense. And one of the things that came to my mind is in the sentencing phase, one of the things that was mentioned about Shawn is that he is biracial and has struggled with um identifying with his identity >> belongs. And so you saying that and kind of keying in on belonging, that's where my brain is. I wonder if that is one of the key parts of, you know, his identity and being by what that means for him and how he fits in and if that contributes to it. Fascinating.

[00:32:19]>> Yeah. And then clinging on to that group he did, they made him feel >> apart.

[00:32:24]>> Apart, belong. He was finding his identity. he thought he was finding.

[00:32:29]>> I wonder if he if it helps him identify with his black side. I mean, his mom was African-American, his dad was actually his mom was Jamaican, >> I'm pretty sure, right? I'm trying to remember. I'm pretty sure. And then the uh the dad, I think, was white.

[00:32:43]>> But regardless, the the biracial side of it in general is something, you know, I feel like has been discussed a long time. And have you experienced that in general? um when people have when they are multi-racial, have you been from your perspective been able to see them struggle with that identity side?

[00:33:02]>> I think in my in my experience, it has gone even beyond being multi-racial. So like another way that my past is unique is that like I taught at a school and I taught the same kids from fifth grade to 8th grade. I moved with them every year.

[00:33:20]>> Oh wow. Um, and not by design. At first it was like accidental. I'd have to tell you the whole backstory. At first it just was like happening. But then once it happened once, I was like, let's just finish it out. Like cuz the this particular set of kids at the school. So I was teaching at a title one school. It was a charter school here in Nashville.

[00:33:41]A school that is no longer open as it should not have been because it was bad.

[00:33:45]But >> the the school was bad, but the kids and the families and the teachers were good.

[00:33:51]But like there were a lot of needs. So like 98% of our kids qualified for free and reduced lunch. So that's 98% children of poverty that we know documented. And then 98% of our kids were black and brown. And so um where I saw this more for me it was not across lines of race because um because class was so salient in the community I was in. So everybody's poor.

[00:34:25]So like we have these things in common.

[00:34:28]So like what else is kind of dividing?

[00:34:31]How else might I need belonging? So, what we what I did see was kids who maybe let's say you've got one student whose parents are not really in the picture at all. They could be unhoused.

[00:34:44]They could be living with grandma. They could be going from couch to couch every night or whatever. They're having these behavior issues, but they're also the cool kid at school. They have a little swag. They they embarrass the teacher.

[00:34:57]They getting their little brownie points. They always got a little comeback. So it's like, okay, well, he's cool. And so I have seen kids who don't come from that exact situation >> start to mimic this other kid because it's not enough of y'all smart kids for you to belong anywhere. So you have to change your identity or that's what you think. I need to change my identity and start acting out because look at how many friends he has. Everybody thinks he's so funny. Everybody thinks he's so cool. And I'm over here by myself.

[00:35:31]Yeah, >> boys do that for sure.

[00:35:35]>> Yes. Yes, >> for sure.

[00:35:37]>> It is a lot. It's a lot in in boys and men. Um Yeah.

[00:35:43]>> I ended up my older the only reason I um I embraced that was because my older brother was real good in math and >> how we went through school, you ended up with the same teachers. So the math teacher was like, "Oh, your brother was such and such, so I know you good in math, blah, blah." So he kind of picked me up or whatever. So that helped me not shy away from being the smart guy in class in the math class.

[00:36:17]>> But you see, cuz um we'll take tests and people always trying to cheat off me or get my answers or whatever.

[00:36:24]>> Not you was a nerd.

[00:36:25]>> Oh yeah. Oh yeah. DJ always be talking about one of my partners DJ was like, "Man, goofs never never shared the answers." But I didn't let that get to me, >> but I could see it getting to other folk. Like, you're not trying to >> Yeah. Yeah.

[00:36:40]>> be talked about, and these are the the um varsity football guys. These are the the the popular guys talking crazy.

[00:36:48]Well, not talking crazy, but just making fun of me. But luckily I had my older brother and that teacher that yeah, you know, instilled in me being smart or whatever was was >> man just be you ask that question. And I was always classing the question and not caring. But you do see >> especially with boys being being the class clown acting out it turning into that person. not being that person but turning into that person. Yeah.

[00:37:22]>> You know, Goose, you bring up uh I want to kind of build off if if it's okay, Mel, if I can build off of two things that Goose said. Like, so one Goose that I want to talk about is kind of like the difference between uh boys and girls in terms of development. But then the other one is also um I want to name like just to kind of connect the point you f it sounds like you were in a situation where you had enough internal um worth and self-esteem to be like I can be smart goose over here during the test time but I can still also you know get down with the because I know Decada goose so eventually you got somewhere up in there now. And so I can still I can get down on both sides, you know, like but it takes um it takes this invisible skill or this invisible character trait of of higher esteem for you to be able to navigate both worlds. I have a very similar story where I didn't know I went to a majority black school or that I lived in a majority black town until I went to college because I was only ever in class with white kids, but the whole rest of the school was black.

[00:38:48]>> The whole rest of the school.

[00:38:50]>> Yeah. And so I also had to like figure out how do I cultivate belonging in both spaces? And so like I just wanted to bring attention to that. Mel, I just uh emailed you two other attachments. And one is um I'll I'll get on to that goose. There's a term for like the skills you needed to be able to navigate how you did and I think a lot of parents will benefit from that um when when we get to it. but also um to talk about the difference between boys and girls. And this is less like on my research side.

[00:39:27]This is something I've always just been passionate and curious about because there was such a stark difference in the presence of black boys and black men in my like younger age versus like girls that had role models. You know, all our teachers were most for me all my teachers were women. like there are mothers and stuff around the school. So, you see girls getting to model after these these figures that they look up to, but you can't really find as many for yourself and for men. Well, it don't matter what age either. And so, like one of the things that I have there's this like Christian author who writes all of these books about um sunship with God.

[00:40:12]And yeah, so I'm a Christian person, but I also be wary cuz it can get a little culty. You know what I'm saying? And so take this with a grain of salt, but I've always taken this piece from him. I ain't never finished the whole book. I don't know if he got crazy toward the end. So don't blame me. And I'm not going to say his name. His name John. I don't know. I ain't gonna say the rest of it. You look at your own risk. But one of the things that he based his book series around is that there's a difference between where masculinity comes from and where femininity comes from. His theory was that femininity develops from the inside out. And so, and you see this kind of in the physical cycle, a girl like getting her menstrual cycle, it's going to happen regardless what her influences are. That the hormones, the the process is going to start regardless. And the the the counterpoint or the balance to that is for men uh masculinity must be conferred.

[00:41:26]>> And conferred meaning I have to get >> what it means to be a man from another man.

[00:41:34]>> I see.

[00:41:35]>> And so that was something that stood out to me as a teacher. And so I would start to look at my middle school boys, high school boys, very similar to what Gu just said. He just said the like regardless of what was going on around him in school, his brother's influence was strong enough as one person to anchor him in an entire identity. And so that's why you also see boys like you said earlier Goose when there's one class clown every man has this internal need to have the masculinity conferred to them and to belong to the group. And if a not so great role model shows up before a good role model shows up the need tells me I just need a role model.

[00:42:24]So whoever is available I'm going to attach so I can get my conference.

[00:42:30]And that's why it tends to be gangs formulating stuff like that because especially if we think about the black community if there aren't as many older men around. I don't have a choice but to look at whoever is the oldest. And the oldest might be 17, >> right?

[00:42:47]>> And his brain ain't fully developed. He ain't got no career plan, but he's what's available. And I have a need. and behavior is the meeting of a unexparing of an unexpressed need.

[00:43:01]>> You are blowing my mind.

[00:43:02]>> And that's that's why on in sports, I'm going use my sports situation. That's why when you look at uh those kids on the football field, you see 50 guys on the sideline never getting to play, >> but they join that team because being on that team gets them notary like, "Oh, that's a man or he's he's on a football team, >> but he don't even get to play. He just want >> and not want Go ahead, Mel." Sorry.

[00:43:37]>> I said they all get rings. Go ahead.

[00:43:39]>> Right. And I would even go further goose to say and this is something that I want to say to parents like and I'm thinking you know a part of me what we said uh in our you know working to get the topics together is talking to parents about like ways that they can maybe better understand their kids and particularly their sons. Goose I'm going to push you to say like in they don't just want to be around a man they need it. And so like, you know, it's not just a preference. And I think that's one of the things that especially as black parents. And so I I was raised by my great-g grandandmother. She was 63 when I was born.

[00:44:23]>> And so like when you talking about being raised by old school black folk, like ain't nobody blacker and more southern than that lady. And so like, and you know, I grew up in a church. I never missed a day at church. I was church musician. I never missed a day at church until I was 22 years old.

[00:44:42]>> I'm I drove home. I had to drive home every weekend from college and go play them drums for 22 years. And so, uh, one of the things that I've noted in this situation about us as black parents, sometimes we don't like to hear that our child needs something that we don't think they need or or even that we maybe can't provide. Like I think a lot of for my a lot of my students, they were able to share things with me because I didn't like I wasn't going to dismiss their need. Whereas when you meet a kid's parent, they come in for a conference, whether it's behavior or whether it's just like report card or whatever, you almost immediately see that they don't get to have needs and thoughts and desires at home because we got six other kids and and I I got a job. I don't have time for you to need something. I put the food on the table and that's all I got, >> you know? Um, and so yeah, so it becomes really important to see these invisible needs and kids don't know they have them either. They don't actually know how to tell you why they need to be on a football team. And I think it becomes our job as parents to say, "Hey, not just, oh, you going to be a star and you're going to go to the NFL, but hey, I understand like you're a young man. you need to be around other young men so you feel like you belong.

[00:46:19]Like I think that's some of the terminology we need to start giving our boys because they don't know how to say what it is they're feeling or what it is they need either, you know.

[00:46:31]>> Yeah, >> that's true. They needed to be on that team. They needed to be around those guys because from me being on playing sports, I've learned how to deal with >> a variety of men. Just the angry one, the sad one, the smart one.

[00:46:50]>> Learn how to navigate >> your world really because man, it's so many different personalities on those teams. Also, when you start going to school, all of those guys that you played park ball with be in your classes and you automatically feel like you belong now because, oh, I played ball with him, you know.

[00:47:10]>> Yeah. Um on that note, um just with you talking about interacting with the parents and that you know shedding light I would imagine on some of the kids that you interact with as a um key part, right? Teachers are so integral to children's lives. They spend so much time with our kids more than us sometimes, right? How do you see your role? What are the kinds of things you try to do? um with kids who you maybe identify early have needs that are gone going unmet. Um and that is whether you have a parent who is maybe open to you playing a role or maybe not. Like if you have a situation where this kid has these needs, it's clear their parents are not or you is is not able to meet that need for whatever reason. Like how do you navigate those situations and how do you try to provide space um you know from your role to these kids?

[00:48:09]So for me, it's a really good question too, Mel. Um, for me, I think again coming out of college with this really specialized lens and having been a black boy myself and knowing like the disparity between my educational opportunities and all the other people that the black men that I went to school with, I had a really keen eye toward finding and identifying these kids who were just go having a lot of unmet needs And so I think I think the like ground rule was that I kind of presented myself in this neutral fashion and I did it always like on purpose but I may be walking down the hall and it's a student who gets sent out of the same class every period. Once I observe three periods I don't walked in the hall and you in the hallway every time I'm gonna come up. Hey man, what's going on?

[00:49:13]>> And they she put me out the classroom.

[00:49:16]She put me out. I'll be like, oh man, what happened? And and I specifically do not say, "What did you do?

[00:49:24]>> What did she do?" I say, "What happened?"

[00:49:28]>> And I what I've noticed is that opens a gateway for the student to say, "Oh, I have some autonomy and value in this conversation."

[00:49:39]And a lot of times they going to tell a one-sided story regardless. Like they're going to tell the the one that puts them in the most favorable light. But that's okay. I'm going to let you do that. Say your piece. She she told me I was ugly and I had to leave the classroom. And it's like now you know that's not what she said. But like go ahead and say your part cuz you're mad. You got your big feelings right now. Say your thing. I'll be like well man you know like that's that's unfortunate. like you out here, we need to, you know, don't you want to get in there and learn your math and your science and once you get around to it? They'd be like, well, like, yeah, I want to, you know, I want to do well in school. And I'm like, okay, so what can you do? I'm I'm going to talk to her next period and see how we can better help you. What if I send you back in class right now? Can you make it the last 15 minutes until I come talk to her? And they'll be like, yeah. And it's like this there's this if we go back to Maslo's I create this opportunity for them to have some psychological safety while things are uncertain. You don't want to just be out here in the hallway.

[00:50:46]It's psychologically unsafe to be out here because you're missing school. You thinking my mama gonna whoop me if she called and tell her I got sent out of school. You're having a whole existential crisis in the hallway. So the best place for you is in the classroom. However, there is a psychological threat in the classroom.

[00:51:06]>> And so I need to disarm the threat before I put you back in the classroom.

[00:51:10]And I do that by saying, I'm going to make sure I double back and make sure your needs are met. If you can hang 15 minutes now with some ambiguity and just do your best, I'm gonna close this loop in a little bit. And so like that would usually be my first interaction with every child who I identified in that way of having some unmet need.

[00:51:33]>> Yeah, I love this phrasing. I'm going to absolutely adopt it that the behavior like that it's an unmet need like this is being prompted because some need is not being met here. And when you are able to use that language and think about it in that way, it just gives you a different even approach. It makes you want to approach the situation different versus it being hostile or you being angry or whatever. This behavior is because something is not being met for this child. So, let's figure out how to address that and then you'll get the behavior you're actually looking for. I think that's brilliant and like what a it's blowing my mind actually. I'm I'm so happy that you shared that. Um I wanted to ask you about um if you've encountered students who have parents or a parent that's been incarcerated, but I also don't want to forget the the things that you sent me. I got them. Do you want me to put them up? You want to go over them right now? How you want to do this?

[00:52:33]>> Let's think about where it goes. Okay. I I actually think it'd be a good opportunity to put those up with this story I'm about to tell you that answer that responds to the question.

[00:52:45]>> Okay.

[00:52:45]>> Um so go ahead and bring up the first one, the wheel, the circle one.

[00:52:54]>> Yeah.

[00:52:56]Um, and so this is called the Castle Wheel of Social Emotional Learning. And Castle is like the National Association that um does all the research and best practices on social emotional learning.

[00:53:12]And one thing that like a lot of people are not aware of is that social emotional learning is also under attack um as part of the project 2025 agenda with DEI. And so like I used to work with an organization where we made national curriculum for um ending school violence and we had to strip this circle and all of these skills from our entire curriculum because it is considered DEI. Um and so folks were not funding if you were talking about SEAL or social emotional learning. And now when I explain to you what it is, you're gonna understand the insidious nature of why this is part of it. And so you can see at the top, social emotional learning is a process through which children and adults understand, manage emotions, set and achieve positive goals, feel and show empathy for others, establish and maintain positive relationships, and make responsible decisions. Now, is that not the list of things that we wish everybody would do, >> right?

[00:54:22]And is that not the list of things that would fix the world? Right?

[00:54:28]>> And so at the center of the circle, you see the two orange on the inside, the two green and the one yellow. Right?

[00:54:35]These are the five pillars of social emotional learning. Self-awareness, self-management, uh, and then there's another version of self-awareness that is more related to relationship skills. And then the yellow is the responsible decision making. And so I'm going to tell you this story.

[00:54:52]when you asked about have I encountered kids with incarcerated parents. What I don't know is like I do know of one kid who I know for sure his parent was in jail. Um and but like regardless of whether they're incarcerated or not, like you could kind of tell if the parents are in the streets or if they have a non-traditional job or whatever the case. I'm gonna kind of like loop that in with this. And so we had a student who had and this I think he was in the fifth grade at this time and he had just had a very difficult life like I don't know what all the traumas were that he was bringing to school but he was very easy to set off and it could be anything and like normally if you look at him especially because he was a black boy dark skin like as a black person, you're like, "Oh my goodness, outside these walls, if we don't teach this kid something else, he's not going to make it because he's got kind of a he really struggles to control his emotions."

[00:56:01]>> And so, we had gotten uh there were several like black administrators at our school in that second year that I was there. And so we have been able to get a little bit more um hum humanbased behavior stuff and more supports for kids like this student. And he was doing better. And so he would come in and he wouldn't immediately want to cuss somebody out or get sent out of class.

[00:56:29]He'd come in and he actually eat his little breakfast and he might make it through one or two classes. And we was like, "Oh, he turning his life around, baby. He's we got it together. And so one day he comes in and he's full on back like bust through the school door, scowl on his face. What if somebody Hey, good morning. Don't talk to me. Like and it just like like whoa whoa. I thought we were, you know, I thought we was good.

[00:56:58]>> And so, you know, he ends up getting put out of every class from 8 a.m. to probably about 12. Yo.

[00:57:07]>> And so, and every time you walk by him in the hallway, he just sitting there with just arms folded, yell at anybody who talked to him. He ends up getting sent to the dean's office. And our dean is a black man. And so, the dean ends up being the first person in four hours who asked him, "Hey, what's wrong?" M >> and trigger warning.

[00:57:32]He says that last night he was in the car with his dad and he they pulled up at a gas station and somebody that was with them was involved in a shooting.

[00:57:42]>> Oh wow.

[00:57:43]>> And in his face and he's 10.

[00:57:46]>> Like he had seen somebody get blown to smitherreens.

[00:57:50]>> Oh my god.

[00:57:51]>> The night before >> and nobody cared to ask. We just wanted him to do work.

[00:57:59]>> Mhm.

[00:58:00]>> And you can't do that. Like he doesn't have the skills to process that on his own. And it's our job to >> pull that out of him, support him, and give him the ability to go on. Right.

[00:58:16]>> And so like >> and to think and to think like how many adults hands he had to pass through from last night to 12 today and nobody had anything for him >> is so heartbreaking, you know. Um, and so like when we look at that particular student's turnaround, the things that he needed were the things on this wheel.

[00:58:46]>> He needed self-awareness to be able to come into the school and say, "Hey, I need to talk to somebody."

[00:58:54]>> Yeah.

[00:58:54]>> He needed self-management to be able to come in when somebody says, "Good morning." Instead of, "Don't talk to me," he needs to be able to, "Oh, you know what? I don't want to be spoken to right now. I need to go talk to somebody. And then he needed to be able to have relationship skills to connect with somebody safe enough >> to say this really traumatic thing. And so >> like it becomes so of the utmost importance in on every hand that we have to teach kids this stuff. And um I unfortunately I think it in most cases is going to fall in the hands of the parents but I think it is a positive thing uh if we can get people connected to these castle resources because a lot of them are free and it like will literally take you kind of step by step through what are the areas what is what is uh what does self-awareness entail what does self-management entail how can I teach it at home, what kind of conversations can I have with my kids?

[01:00:00]And so like I wanted to make sure that we got this in front of people during our conversation.

[01:00:05]>> Um so yeah, and if you want to put up the second version so people can see kind of what the skills are, the little list.

[01:00:13]Um, and while you transition to that, I'll also kind of going back to um who there were several defendants who they talked about like at their conviction, right? Oh, they may have um severe intellectual impairments, right?

[01:00:33]And they did these IQ tests.

[01:00:35]>> So, this is one of the things that made me so personally upset and it's why I couldn't finish the video that I commented on.

[01:00:43]>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:00:43]>> Because >> I so I used to like I said like at Vandy we like a part of our um funding like my financial aid was tied to doing research and so I had to work in a research lab and I administered um intelle like IQ test to kids to see how they would respond. And so I had to take two or three, especially in being in special ed, like my job is to be able to help kids get diagnosed so that they can be on a track to get a tailored um education plan that meets their needs if they have a disability. And so I have a lot of experience with when you score low in this area, it has realworld implications.

[01:01:36]And what I hated about watching them folks on this stand was that man would just say he low in this, he couldn't remember that or they did remember this, they did remember that. What they didn't say is when a person scores low in the area of executive function, it means that they can't juggle multiple um thoughts or ideas or complex concepts at the same time. And so what I see in our young black boys, like the kid who I was talking about, he's got all this trauma.

[01:02:07]His mind is full of watching somebody get blown to smitherreens. So he can't hold on to multi-step stuff. And if nobody finds that early enough and like retailers his education, he's going to graduate and need um work or he needs to engage it with an economy that is immediate and concrete. And what do we know about selling drugs and doing gang violence?

[01:02:38]>> It's immediate. It's immediate. Either I landed the shot and now I get to post on Instagram or I didn't and I don't.

[01:02:47]Either I sold the drug and you give me the 20 and I get to go buy my little thing at the store or I don't.

[01:02:54]>> And so like when you >> a I mean I hate that it took them murdering somebody to get an IQ test because that's supposed to be provided by every state school because it's funded by the government. If you think a kid has a disability, so this should not have been the first time we are finding out that they have an intellectual impairment, >> they should have been being treated for the last 13 years so that they it didn't get here >> to this point. Um, wait. I just want to say because you you referenced the immediate and concrete and one um in one of the tests.

[01:03:35]>> I want to say it was for Dave.

[01:03:39]>> He gave an answer and I can't remember.

[01:03:42]I feel like it was about furniture. I feel like the answer it was like what are the similarities between these two things?

[01:03:49]>> Uhhuh. And the answer >> and she said well he gave a concrete answer. Um and I was like I don't know what that means. like what is it? And so when you're just talking about immediate and concrete like walk me through a little bit of like concrete like what what that um impacts or like can you say more? Is it the same as the immediiacy where you're talking about like if I shoot you going to be dead and then I win is it talk about concrete a little bit more for me I guess is >> okay. Yeah. So there like the research behind it is that there is um there there is this theory that we all grow like throughout life you grow from concrete to abstract. And so if you think about a baby um there is this uh like psychological phenomena that we study called object permanence. And so this is like what you use to play peekaboo with a baby.

[01:04:50]>> The reason that when you cover your eyes and then you bring them back, the reason that that's like, oh my goodness, it's like a magic trick cuz they don't have object permanence. They don't understand that things are not just what you see.

[01:05:06]They only understand the concrete. So when you cover your face, you no longer exist. And then when you uncover your face, oh my goodness, how did you do that?

[01:05:18]>> And so that is like once a kid no longer falls for peekaboo, you now know they understand things are concrete. You now they know they understand. I can touch it. I can see it. I can feel it. It exists. As you grow older, you start to go from the concrete. If somebody tell, and I'm going to go real young. Um, kids start to learn language. Language is a reference. I can say chair and immediately a chair pops in your mind.

[01:05:48]That's abstract. You don't need a chair to think about a chair.

[01:05:53]>> Got it? you know, and so the way that that transfers into jobs, let's say, you know, how they talk about uh they're going to promote somebody that's a manager, you have to be able to they we say manage people, but what we mean is we you need to be able to see traits at work that aren't actually seeable. You need to be able to predict when there's a conflict. You need to be able to to feel when something is off. You need to be able to look into the future as something that has not happened and create a solution for it before it happens. So that's abstract.

[01:06:28]>> Yeah.

[01:06:29]>> Versus concrete.

[01:06:31]>> Wow. Understood. That helped me actually cuz when she said it, I don't understand. But this this is making sense.

[01:06:38]>> And it it makes sense.

[01:06:42]What it makes you realize is that these skills are they're life skills. And so when these defendants are operating at such a lower level, when they haven't learned these life skills and you're having a conversation about uh premeditation and cold and calculated in the sense of like there was so many opportunities to turn away, but if somebody's brain can't even process this multiple of feelings, right? I hate this person because he killed my cousin and I want to get him, but the other side of me is that I know this is wrong and I should turn away. But if you can't even mentally process that, you onetrack minded. I'm going where I'm going. I'll see you when I get there. Instead of acknowledging and processing this other side of you that this is a bad idea. We gonna go to jail. We >> that that is very abstract because it hasn't happened. It's a fake future.

[01:07:39]You're asking them to imagine something that does not exist. And I don't know I could go to jail until they put the handcuffs on me.

[01:07:49]>> And that is a part of why people can stay in the streets. That's why people can murder somebody and walk down the street. I can't afford to think about something that hasn't happened cuz my Maslos is so low. I'm I'm concerned about eating. I don't have time to imagine prison. I got to do this now.

[01:08:11]>> Yeah.

[01:08:14]>> Well, and that I mean what you just said makes me think of the people who commit crimes out of necessity. Like my my siblings, my mom, me were hungry. So yes, I robbed you cuz I'm hungry. And so to ex literally what you just said, I can't think about the consequences of jail because right now my stomach is grow is growling. Yeah.

[01:08:39]>> What we gonna do about this hunger?

[01:08:41]>> Yeah.

[01:08:42]>> Wow.

[01:08:42]>> And and if I go to jail after I eat this honey bun, then so be it. That's a problem for post honey bun meat.

[01:08:49]>> I need a honey bun.

[01:08:51]>> That's so This is amazing. This is so insightful. I'm like, it's blowing my mind.

[01:08:58]>> It's goose. Goose wheels are turning.

[01:09:01]What you thinking, Goose?

[01:09:03]>> But how do we prevent this? How do we how do we help the that boy that that young child to experience this before >> he does experience murdering somebody? You know, because I'm How do you help him?

[01:09:25]So, this is what I like. I'm so glad that we naturally progressed through all my little um pictures and diagrams and stuff. I'm so because I didn't My prediction here's the teacher in me. My prediction was if I could guide this lesson the way I need to that will produce this natural question and the tools that I gave you up until this point are the answer. And so like now I'm going to bring it together though of like the actual how. And so the way you stop a kid from murdering somebody when they're 18 is you have to catch them in the hallway and teach them how to say, "Hey, I'm feeling murdery."

[01:10:14]>> Like I like I I'm feeling away. I need to talk about it. And so like male if you pull up the um the list uh if you pull up the list you will see under self should be self-management. So impulse control stress management self-disipline selfmotivation goal setting organizational skills. So by nature your brain's job is to keep you physically safe. everything fall everything else falls secondary to that. And so if that student who came to school, he just saw somebody get killed in a random part of his day, his brain is not going to naturally let go of that so that he can go on about his life. So he needs a skill set to teach him how to manage stress, how to manage his impulses and get back on track. And so like you, this is where it comes into parenting and like where I kind of want to speak to parents and spec I mean no I don't I don't want this to come off like overbearing or I don't want it to come off no certain type of way but like I know us I've worked with black parents like I know what we be bringing to the table and with our best intentions. But let me let me just turn let me just turn y'all just a little bit. Let me just correct just a little bit. So parenting after a certain age requires autonomy and collaboration with the child.

[01:11:57]>> I need to call my mom real quick.

[01:11:59]>> I need her to hear this part.

[01:12:02]And what uh what she what she said the other week uh uh she told Liz to tell Mel to something something something like >> all the time she >> right all the time >> point of I'm grown but I'm sorry go ahead >> exactly and so like what this looks like goose is when you get a sixth grader a seventh grader especially a boy like you can't let these moments pass you by where they get mad about a video game and throw a controller and don't go back and tell them, "Hey, how are you feeling? What's going on internally?

[01:12:42]Let's talk about how you feel and what we can do in the future to to mitigate this emotional outburst essentially.

[01:12:51]That's impulse control, you know. And it doesn't mean if they just put a hole in your wall, they need to be grounded or or whatever y'all do in y'all house. But it cannot be with the in the absence of this explanation because the truth is boys and men will never acquire these skills unless somebody teaches them to them. Because we don't have an internal compass like women. We don't have hormones and stuff that's going to direct us to learn empathy and to like that. They talk about that motherhood, that nurturing. This is why [ __ ] lay up and then just walk off.

[01:13:39]>> They don't have it. And and not to put this on women, it's really on us goose men. like we got to get our stuff up because what did we say at the beginning? Masculinity is conferred.

[01:13:52]>> And so if men are not teaching other men self-awareness, social awareness, responsible decision- making, they will never learn it. And that's why it's pee in the dating pool for women. And yeah, I said it.

[01:14:12]that the whole >> is this not um >> well you said they were taking this out of the school this entire learning process >> instead of certain classes they should have this as a class like I know we used to where people used to fight tooth and nail to uh not dress out for physical education beed into this class.

[01:14:37]>> Hilarious. How well I'm curious about how how are what age were these um things being taught and how does that look like in a classroom? What does it look like to teach these kinds of things? Is it when something happens and then you just as the teacher kind of navigate it or is it a was it a literal lesson where you are instructing young children, hey this is your emotion and this is how you know what I'm saying like what did what did it look like in practicality? I guess >> it can look a lot of different ways. Um the difficulty is that like in a traditional public school, you know, there's so much on school's plates that like people just aren't doing this. And then another thing is it takes a high level of um skill and training to be able to answer the question you just asked because it's like how do I fit this between math, science, literacy, all the other stuff we're doing? How do I put it in there? And so um my approach was I had I had a couple of entry points. My approach was the conversation that I told you um at the beginning where I would start on this neutral ground and give a child experience with making their own choices and talking through their own stuff. And as I would grow in relationship with that child or they trust me with more things or they it'll get to the point where they say I want to uh when they get in trouble I want to talk to Mr. Hope and that would mean that like other teachers would feel disrespected by that or whatever. It's like no this is my classroom but what they're trying to say is I want to talk to someone who listens >> that I need someone to hear me and the reason I get put out your class every day is because you don't hear me. you ain't.

[01:16:35]>> And so that's really what I'm asking for. And so like there's this natural way of like just building relationship over time and continuing to like show kids that they have this ability and transfer those skills to them. And then you when I said earlier parenting requires collaboration. One of the things that I would really urge mothers of boys to do is to start like making kids opt into this conversation when they're angry, when they're upset, like you don't have to talk to me right now, but this day will not end without us talking about this thing you got upset about so that I can give you the words.

[01:17:16]And the more you give them the words, the first time you s I saw a kid first grade I had took over for I was long-term sub. They teacher left at Christmas and never came back.

[01:17:29]>> She said I'm >> and didn't tell and didn't tell nobody nothing. So I show up as a substitute, right? and I'm doing my little thing for I'm thinking I'm doing one day and the principal come in and tell me at the end of the day, hey, essentially they didn't beat you up today. Like you made it. Can you come back again and keep doing that for a while?

[01:17:58]>> And so I was like, um, and you know, I just graduated, so I'm like, uh, yeah.

[01:18:04]And you know, I had talked cash money stuff at, oh, I'mma go out into the community and I'mma work with when I tell you y'all, the school, the kids, it wasn't a hundred yards between their bed and the school, fresh out the projects into across one street into the school.

[01:18:26]>> And so that there was this little boy who impulse control was terrible. If you said anything to him, he was swinging.

[01:18:35]He going to swing on you or he going to cuss you out. It don't matter. And one day, so he was the kids was in their little locker and somebody bumped him with the locker and I watched him go and then he looked at me and he was like, "Oh yeah." He's like, "Okay." And I and I just look at him and I go, "Thank you.

[01:18:56]I'll handle this." It's the first time he had ever controlled his impulse. And it took a long time, but I had to be the trusted person there showing him, I'm going to give you an o and he hit a lot of people before that.

[01:19:11]>> But it wasn't about that. It was about this time that he didn't.

[01:19:14]>> Absolutely.

[01:19:15]>> It was about that.

[01:19:16]>> I'm a changed man.

[01:19:18]>> Yeah, exactly. He was And you should have seen it connected, you know. He looked and Oh, okay. You I see. Oh, I cannot hit people. Interesting.

[01:19:32]It's a brand new experience for him.

[01:19:36]>> Oh man.

[01:19:37]>> Wow. Okay.

[01:19:39]>> Yeah. We need to get rid of social studies after um >> Oh my >> at the fifth grade. We don't need geography.

[01:19:45]>> Hold on. You taking it too far. We need >> we need >> Oh, and that's what I was going to say is like the reason that this is so sinister like you know I know on Jen and Juice Male y'all Liz is the always the one that will say you know the world is crazy. I'm all distracted. So now they can just do whatever they want to do.

[01:20:06]What would stop people from being distracted? Seal. if if we could regulate our emotions, if we could manage all the mess that they're doing to us every day, we would organize and do our thing. And so, like, that's why it's a part of the strike from DEI initiative because we don't want kids to be learning that they have choices.

[01:20:29]>> Yeah. Yeah.

[01:20:29]>> You know, it's the soft launch of whatever this is, you know.

[01:20:34]>> Yeah. Yeah. Did I forget or leave out anything that you wanted to add or that you didn't touch on because you >> great nuggets?

[01:20:43]>> The Thank you. The last thing that uh I'll end on with G uh Goose's you know request to replace some classes with some other classes. You asked what this looked like. And so like one of the things that I did at my school like the school itself was I just so y'all know I was a rogue student. I was a rogue teacher. I was a I I if I saw a problem, especially if it has something to do with some black kids, I don't care what y'all got going on, I'm about to help these black kids. And so I pulled There was one day that I pulled our data from because we had like a dashboard where we could keep up with student behavior. We had like merits and demerits or sendouts or whatever. And so there was one day they were doing this academic scan of the whole school to figure out how do we need to switch up these classes? How do we need to put kids who need extra reading? We can put them in a study hall over here. Math, we can put them in a study hall over here. And I said, okay, what about behavior? Like there are kids who spend more time in the dean's office than they spend in class. So we don't even know what their data is because they're never in class. And they kind of like because I wouldn't be quiet about it, they were kind of like, well, if you want to do something with that, like you can take the ones with the highest sendouts or whatever and do something.

[01:22:06]So I did I put together what I called a lunch bunch to where it was like five or six. I would do rotation. So like it's let's say it's 12 kids with the highest sendouts in the grade. Six of y'all are going to come have lunch with me on Monday and Wednesday. another six of y'all gonna come on Tuesday and Thursday. And I would talk to them about these skills and help them recognize, hey, was there a time this week where you got mad and you lashed out or whatever. And we would just talk about that stuff over lunch. And it got to the point where they started coming to me at the end of the day and be like, oh, I was going to cut somebody out today and I didn't. And I'm like, look at God.

[01:22:44]>> Look at God. Well, I'll say. And when you have that little touch point, you can even walk by them in the hallway and just give them a little, hey, what we talk about at lunch? Oh, you you right.

[01:22:54]You right. You right. You right. Because like y'all know we say it has become like a joke that you know like the prefrontal cortex is not fully developed and all that. The prefrontal cortex is where all the seal happens. That's what's the problem. And the way and it does not develop naturally. Like I'mma dispel this myth. If you are not like if if we don't put the stuff in your head, it don't never develop.

[01:23:24]>> So them kids who did that, they could be 45, 60, 75. If they don't have the experiences that develop their prefrontal cortex, it won't develop.

[01:23:34]>> Got it.

[01:23:34]>> So yeah. So there we go. That that was my end. That's all I got.

[01:23:40]>> Well, okay. I'm I have one more end.

[01:23:42]Sorry.

[01:23:43]>> Okay. because I the trial for Ebony Parker has just started. Uh the criminal trial um we already had the civil trial.

[01:23:50]Um I talked about a little bit before you came up. It is um the vice principal who was over the school in which a first grader ended up shooting his uh teacher, his first grade teacher. He ended up shooting her and he had a specialized education plan. He was on a modified schedule. Uh he actually on Wednesday he took his teacher's f phone threw it cracked the screen was not able to come to school Thursday came back on Friday and that's the day he shot the teacher.

[01:24:20]>> Oh >> say all of that to say um that's the leadup to Friday. Other kids report to the teachers he got a gun and they are I think not believing it's a real gun at first but then eventually reporting it to um Ebony Parker. The teacher herself never reported to the uh to Ebony Parker but other the reading specialist for sure reported it to Ebony Parker. The boy's person was never searched. His bag was searched and the gun wasn't in there. They believed it was on his person. Obviously it was ended up shooting teacher. Mhm.

[01:24:55]>> My question, cuz I have a bunch of them, but I I'm not going to hold you for too much longer. My first question is, if you were the teacher and had been informed rather by a student or another teacher, hey, PE kids in your class think that one of your students have a gun. What in your experience or what would have been your next steps at that point?

[01:25:25]black student. Black little boy.

[01:25:28]>> What grade was he in?

[01:25:29]>> First grade.

[01:25:30]>> First grade. I think that matters >> for sure. And we had never had the young. He's essentially the youngest school shooter. We had never had it.

[01:25:39]>> Obviously, we had Sandy Hook would happen at an elementary school, but it was an older person. So, this is first grade.

[01:25:45]So my again my unique lens is that for me because the things I just explained and that we talked about this is science about all humans ages zero to 1,000.

[01:26:03]So I know that in every instance I don't care how outlandish the circumstances are or how crazy it sounds. I know that behavior is a is is a cry for unmet need or is a response to unmet need.

[01:26:21]>> If I knew that this student has been struggling, you automatically know they have unmet needs. That means this is not far-fetched.

[01:26:32]Like this is not far-fetched to me. I get and you can tell like which student would be on something like that, but I think for a lot of people in general, I think we just don't know how to manage like other folks. Like I think it I with all the things that go on in a school, it would just sound fake. I get it. But I am the person that's trained to be able to have more of a sense of like whether or not we need to check >> and I take backpacks like I don't care like it because it's I had a kid call his mama one day he took my backpack and she called me and uh so and so said you took his backpack and I did and it's right here in the and I did because he keep going to that backpack during other people class and I don't know what he doing that for and it it's it's fishy.

[01:27:34]So, I took it out the room and I said and you know and I told I was I had been at the mall. I told I saw the backpack.

[01:27:41]It was like a $100 backpack and I told her I said I know this backpack cost a lot of money and I'm not going to let nothing happen to it. And she was going to go off on me not because I took her son's backpack but because she thought she was going to lose her money. You know, she had an unmet need. And my response to her boiled that down. Hey, I'm gonna make sure this backpack just fine. This was a safety issue. And so like you gotta check. You gotta check.

[01:28:08]And you can't be scared of this. Another thing about schools. Like people don't know how to deal with black people.

[01:28:16]Honestly, like a lot I think 87% of teachers are white women.

[01:28:21]>> That's not who you need to deal with a black situation.

[01:28:25]>> Cuz I'm going I'm a black man. If somebody say it's something fishy, go in that classroom. I'm busting in that classroom. Hey, give me this. Uhuh. What y'all doing up in here? Give me that.

[01:28:35]Uhuh. What's that?

[01:28:38]And people don't people don't that ain't in the It ain't in the manual. We didn't learn that at orientation. So, that would have been my first thing. Hey, what you doing over there? Give me that.

[01:28:51]>> Yeah. So, I can't I mean, I can't help.

[01:28:53]Oh, girl that I had, man. I had a It was this substitute lady. Them kids stole from her every day.

[01:29:02]>> And you could tell she ain't never been stolen from. So, she was shocked and they would steal and then they would lie about it. It ain't no I'm in a classroom with one boy. He stole my phone. And I I go, "Hey, principal, this young man stole my phone." Uh-uh. No, I didn't.

[01:29:20]And she is flabbergasted because she ain't never I saw you. No, you didn't.

[01:29:27]And look at boldface. So, I mean, I can't help y'all that you're not culturally responsive. Hire me and tell me to come to your school so I can teach y'all how to get these kids together.

[01:29:36]How about that?

[01:29:38]>> All right.

[01:29:38]>> Because you got to go in there and get it. Go give me give me that bag. Give me that.

[01:29:44]>> I said I'm g to snatch that bag up, man.

[01:29:50]But you're raising such a good point. I It's one I don't even consider, but like culturally we um that's just our c that's who we are as people. That's who we are. And so when you have a in a school, a class or a child who is presenting challenges for you and that you are not um uh that that is I don't want to say you're ignorant to that world, but it's not something that's familiar to you. You don't know how to respond to it in a way that's going to have him respond have the child. you have to respond to him the way he's familiar with and the way you know what I like there it's just different and it's I actually had hadn't thought about it in that way. Um but >> I kid you not I used to I have a friend who to this day will tell you he was white boy had been living outside for two years in Malaysia and came back and taught at the school I'm talking about.

[01:30:52]Them kids ran over him like roadkill. I kept him after school one day and I I said, "All right, I'm gonna stay stand up at the front of that classroom. I'm gonna raise my hand and just call you a [ __ ] and you need to respond." And that's and I made I made him do it till he had the right response. And the next year he had the highest literacy growth in the whole school.

[01:31:17]>> That man, >> I'm gonna I'm about to train you.

[01:31:23]>> Hey, I'mma put you a We gonna get it. We going to get to it because you can't you not going to stand up here having been outside all your life having a good little kiki. These this only chance. You got to get it right. We don't have another chance.

[01:31:37]>> You have to get it right.

[01:31:39]>> You're right.

[01:31:40]>> On teachers resumes.

[01:31:42]>> On teachers resumes. You need to go back and ask the teachers who they were raised by.

[01:31:47]>> All right. Good night.

[01:31:48]>> Cuz they raised by their grandma.

[01:31:50]>> Take it too far.

[01:31:51]>> No. This man was raised by a black grandma. having a great time and that's how black where's the bridge jumping over it cuz you grandma you put your elbows on the table you getting popped get your elbows off my table >> that's how them kids man >> the teachers have to put on the resume who raised them >> yes who who raised you and then you know who you who you about to hire if you hire somebody this man raised by his grandma oh >> great grandma >> great grandma oh even better he's gonna know how to handle these kids and respond ASAP. Hey, uh we we think he got a gun in his in his bag. A boy, let me see his bag.

[01:32:34]Just like that.

[01:32:36]>> Not Oh, hold on. Let Let me see. Um uh excuse me, Johnny. Is there anything in your bag you want to tell me about?

[01:32:44]>> Hell no. It's Let me see. And if it ain't in there, get on.

[01:32:50]>> All right. Thank you, man, for being here. he'd be on a resume.

[01:32:54]>> Uh, let me say because somebody in the comments said that um the boy, the first grader, somebody said he was uh Hispanic. I actually I thought he was um black, but I could be wrong. So, let me correct that now. I He could also not be black. That is what I thought based off of a picture uh that I had come across.

[01:33:13]I could be wrong. Um that said, thank you so much for this conversation. I think it was amazing. It was so enlightening. Blew my mind a number of times. dropped a bunch of nuggets um that I I mean and it was a it's a slight pivot from what we do because we obviously talk so much legal, but it's like so important because it's the background of how some of these kids end up in the the justice system. Um so, thank you again. I'm so happy that we were able to do this and you were able to share. Tell us one more time. Um anything >> I want to say thank you by the way before she ends it. Go ahead.

[01:33:46]>> I appreciate your energy and everything that you do. with breaking this stuff down is I'm intrigued.

[01:33:53]>> Yeah.

[01:33:53]>> Yeah.

[01:33:54]>> Uh >> follow me anytime >> where we can where whatever you want to promote, tell them where to either follow you, find you, your business, whatever you want to tell them.

[01:34:05]>> Um the I think the most important thing for me right now, I am looking for new clients. Like obviously in the the wake of MAGA times and the days of Chud the Builder and all of that like people are very hesitant to hire somebody to have these conversations and to approach things in the schools this way and quite frankly because they're scared like they're pulling funding for folks who are I've had to change my title and all these different kinds of things. So, if you are an educator out there who is not scared and really about this action, go to rimington-halt.com remi nt o n-halt.com and you can see the things that I've done there. You can reach out, contact me from there. Uh, sign up for my newsletter. And if you want to find me on socials, it is Remington_RHC, which stands for Remington Hope Consulting. And so I think that I it's on Twitter and Instagram for sure. Um but I just be over here trying to do this work. So I don't be doing a lot on socials, but I do um more of this vein.

[01:35:15]I have a channel called the Remington Room where um I work on dispelling the myth of common sense is what I call it.

[01:35:25]And so a lot of these conversations have to do with that platform. And so like when I release content of this nature, it will be on the Remington room. So if you want to follow me there.

[01:35:40]>> Fabulous.

[01:35:41]>> Great.

[01:35:41]>> Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for lending us your time today. Um we'll have to have you on again. I'm sure we'll reach out again.

[01:35:48]>> Yes. Remington.

[01:35:49]>> I know. Great name.

[01:35:52]>> Thank you. appreciate.

[01:35:54]>> He's so foolish. All right, bye. Cuz he gonna say something.

[01:35:58]>> Thank you for coming, man.

[01:36:04]>> Um, okay. Thank you again to Remington for such an insightful conversation. I hope you guys enjoyed it. Like I said, it is slightly different than what we typically do, but so necessary. Uh, something I had I mean so many of those points I had never never considered, never thought about, didn't know. Um, so >> and asking questions differently, >> yeah, >> will you get a totally totally different response for sure and it makes you feel >> almost like a Woosaw type situation.

[01:36:34]>> Um, so >> he's a teacher, by the way. That's that's >> like in him. You see it the way it comes out. So, it's so good. I'm so so grateful that he joined us today. Um, all right. That said, thank you for watching another episode. Uh, we will see y'all next week. Make sure you follow I'm not lawyer but on all platforms >> gzb y >> hello >> on IG.

[01:36:56]>> Uh court is ajourned.

[01:36:58]>> Bye.