Most CRITICAL Buffalo Bills & Rousseau Expectations w/ Joe Marino | The Jeremy and Joe Show

Added: 2026-06-10

[00:00:00]But joining us on the Western Hotline right now is Mr. Joe Marino, the Lockdown Bills podcast. He has his new feature out, the top 10 most important bills uh to the future of the franchise.

[00:00:10]And uh we welcome him in. Joe, good morning.

[00:00:14]>> Hey, good morning, Jeremy. How are you?

[00:00:16]>> I'm all right. I'm all right. We'll get to the the top 10, the most important bills, and that conversation I know you put together. There's a panel. I'm a part of that panel. It's a it's a blended set of rankings, but I want to bring into our conversation about well, it's kind of a Miles Garrett conversation. It's about Jared Verse.

[00:00:31]It's about Greg Russo. It's about the pass rush, right? Which if there's anything we've talked about with the Bills, it's receiver and pass rush.

[00:00:37]These are returning themes. And with Russo, one thing I mentioned to to Joe, Sneaky Joe here earlier in the show was I hope in 2026 I notice him more. Not to say I don't think he's a good player, but when we're talking about these pass rushers, these premier guys, these are guys that, you know, when they line up at the snap, I'm looking to see where Miles Garrett is, even Jared Verse or Max Crosby or on and on and on. And with Russo, like seven sacks, decent pressure numbers, not a lot of quick pressures.

[00:01:09]Do you feel like it's fair to ask that to notice him more? And do you think this new defense will give him the chance to maybe to show that more, to do more uh with his career?

[00:01:20]>> Yeah, I think it's a good point and and Greg Russo is an excellent football player. Um A+ run defender. He's a good pressure player. Where the disconnect comes is that he's just not a sack artist, right? And I think disassociating that from the overall appreciation is challenging for a lot of fans. And the reality is, you know, Greg Russo, while he is handsomely paid, he's not paid like he's supposed to be like this elite defensive playmaker. $20 million a year for a a pass rusher or an edge rusher is is not a ton of money, right? Like he's probably closer to the the 20th highest paid at the position.

[00:02:02]And so I I think you can appreciate Greg Rouso when you just kind of understand the reality of the contract and what he provides the football team. Now the problem is that you're craving that sack artist, the finisher, the guy that's going to come in and you know it's a long and late down and you know they're the the havoc wreaker that you know they when you watch the Bills on a broadcast they they put the you know the circle around them, right? And and I don't feel like Greg Russo is that caliber player.

[00:02:32]So, I I'd encourage Bills fans to appreciate Greg Russo for who he is and don't be frustrated that he's not something um more and he's he's not he's not paid like he's a guy that's supposed to take over in those moments. I I could I could understand wanting more, but I where I struggle with the Greg Rouso conversation is the lack of appreciation for what he does for an expectation for something that is not in a skill set and not what he's paid to do, if that makes sense.

[00:02:58]>> Yeah. Do you feel like that expectation is just simply because there isn't a guy over top of him? Like the money wouldn't tell you that he should be better than he is. And really the draft pick, it's not like he if he had gone fifth overall and was the player that he was, I think that would be different than a guy that went at the end of the first round.

[00:03:15]>> It's 100% that, Joe. It's it's a Greg Rouso is I is is criticized for not being that player when there's really nothing about where he was picked or what he's paid that says that he should be that player. And um the fact that there's a absence of that player exacerbates the issue. I I 100% believe that because really I mean the the people that really dive into the tape with this Bills defense really appreciate and know the skill set that Greg Russo offers. It's extremely valuable. It's a it's a lot like I compare him to John Franklin Meyers with with with Denver. And and part of my my push back on the Bills being the team that went and paid John Franklin Myers would be that I think they'd just be getting another Greg Rouso. I I I couldn't imagine what those conversations would be like when he has, you know, good pressure numbers, five to seven sacks, but is getting paid well over $20 million a year. Like, I just feel like that disconnect has led to some some conversations that are probably not fair to Rouso. Um, but maybe the the the conversation really needs to be going towards, well, why doesn't the team have that player when pass rush has been uh a six-year conversation?

[00:04:32]>> Yeah. Is there is there a different how big a difference is there in his job this year to you Joe versus previous seasons? Like is there any element to him like that Jim Leonard spoke to this on Ed Oliver that like he's someone that might have more freedom in this scheme going forward? Like is that also true of Rouso or is it closer for him that to what he's already been doing?

[00:04:53]I would say it's going to be more advantageous for Oliver compared to Rouso because um well, you're going to get a lot of fiveman fronts uh from the Bills and the intent of that is to to get your one-on- ones, right? Like you want to present a math problem for the blocking surface um that doesn't want to have to commit a lot of extras and and it makes it difficult to double, right?

[00:05:16]when you have fiveman fronts and you can't the double team is hard. Uh and so you get more one-on- ones and and Ed Oliver is going to be the beneficiary of that and then you're you're going to have Russo and Chub they're going to be over tight ends a lot. I'm guessing they'll be um have to handle a tight end and some and some help there. Um which I think is good. I think that's helpful. I think expect Russo and and Chub to win a lot against tight ends and them playing being more outside uh outside in players as opposed to just vertical players.

[00:05:48]Like in the Shawn McDermott defense, they were kind of a vertical style uh up the field defense where uh these alignments for Chub and Rouso I think will come more outside in. It does give them a little bit more flexibility, I think. Um, but ultimately the the the advantage is that they they should just be in more one-on- ones and that's what it comes down to. You got to win your one-on-one battles and I think that they'll be positioned to uh to have those types of looks and got to go out there and win.

[00:06:15]>> So to the conversation about the pass rush and whether or not they'll have a good pass rush scheme will play a lot into this. As you say, you know, there's nobody over top of Russo. How does Bradley Chub rank? Is he over top or is he on the level? Could Could Rouso get better results just by the presence of another guy that is at least thought of to be this highly? There's a guy that was taken in the top five, maybe didn't live up the top five, but has still been a pretty good football player throughout his career.

[00:06:44]>> Well, I I do think that the scheme probably more so than Chubb. I think Chub helps. Um, you know, I think he's outside of kind of that stretches of Bosa or stretches of Vaughn, uh, probably the best thing the Bills have had, oppo, uh, Greg Russo. And so that excites me. But I I think where you're going to find the biggest benefit to the pass rush is going to be the scheme. And not just because I think the Bills will be probably in the top five of the league in in blitz rate. like that's that's a characteristic of what we expect this defense to be. But I think their coverage uh plan will be a lot tighter. I think you'll see a lot more man coverage. I think you'll see a lot more press. And so the early disruption, the the stickier coverage that's less top down, right? You think about Shawn McDermott. We're playing with vision forward. Uh and I don't think that's at all what this defense is going to be. I think they're going to be in the face of receivers, aggressive, trying to disrupt timing. And if you can get that and you can force, you know, that quarterback to um really really have to do a lot of postnap work and um you know, things that maybe they thought would be available aren't and you work deeper with your progressions. I think that that tighter coverage plan um certainly is riskreward, but I think the benefit is that it uh it marries with your rush and gives you a chance to um not have to win so quick uh if you're going to get a sack. So, I think that the complimentary nature of where this defense is is kind of heading with more of an aggressive coverage profile, I think, will help the pass rush, give them a little bit more time to get home. While we're on the pass rush, Joe, the Miles Garrett trade this week, were you on the same wavelength that the Bills just if they if they wanted to be in that? They just didn't have a Jared Verse player to compete with that offer.

[00:08:34]>> Well, I think that's true, but I I think that there's the other side of that conversation is well, why why don't the Bills have a a Jared verse caliber player? Um, and I felt pretty strong last offseason. I thought the Bills should have tried to get a deal done with with Miles Garrett. obviously that nobody traded for Mount Garrett and it winds up happening this off season. I don't feel as remorseful that they didn't get it done. I I don't I don't I certainly find myself frustrated a little bit. Um jealous if you will. Um but and I think the Rams layer to it makes it even worse. um where that team has just been really aggressive and uh they attack weaknesses very very aggressively and um to see them do that time and time again and of course they do have a Super Bowl to show for it.

[00:09:23]They need to get another one I think to to make this all work which I I think most people expect them to do. Um you know that there's there's that element of it but it's it's also coming to terms that they operate differently. They do it you know they do it at such a high level. They have a great coach. they they pick a ton of players and develop them and they implement them really really well and and I think there's probably 30 other teams that also wish that they their team could operate like that and pull these types of things off and so yeah there was a frustrating element but uh yeah it's more so that the nucleus didn't exist to allow the flex to be truly involved on a deal like that.

[00:10:02]>> Yeah, you know Joe, you mentioned like frustration. And I think a lot of Bills fans feel the frustration about a Garrett deal as a bigger picture because they went after Von Miller and that didn't work out only because of injury.

[00:10:14]Like he shows up and he was great. And I I pointed out yesterday if if you'd go back in time two years and I told you that Garrett would move, Parsons would move, Hendrickson would sign somewhere else, and Max Crosby would get traded even though it got backed out of. Like wouldn't you have thought the Bills would have been a landing spot for one of the four, right? like those are the the premium guys and you're in this window and I I think the GM wants to kind of get after that stuff but every time they fall short. So to spin that forward, you know, we're talking about the nucleus and you didn't have a Jared verse. Do you feel like the last two off seasons, which have mostly been about adding a lot of pieces, could, I don't want to be like Charlie Brown and Lucy with the football, set them up to try to make a move like that in the next off season if they need to, if they decide they need to, that they can swing again because they've they've kind of backfilled the proper way. They've added a lot more picks than they had in years past. And hopefully, you know, all these additions on defense give them an overflow of of players that are maybe eligible to be in that mix.

[00:11:21]>> Yeah, so many thoughts come to mind there, Jeremy. First of all, yeah, I think I am surprised that there's been that much movement with premier pass rush guys and and Brandon Bean hasn't been able to land one, especially going back to the Bills coming out of the 2019 season. That was their 10- win season.

[00:11:39]uh they lose to Houston in the playoffs and that year the Bills I think we all enjoyed that team but ultimately just didn't score enough which has really not been a problem since but I think they were the only only team in the playoffs that year that averaged under 24 points per game and then we saw it like we watched that Houston game they had like 16 at halftime and you know they they kind of hit a wall in the second half and you said they got to get a receiver and they go out and get digs and it's like exactly the move and they score all the points and all that happens, Right.

[00:12:09]Um and and that felt like all right, yeah, Brandon Bean, if there's a problem, he's going to fix it. And even the offensive line, remember coming out of 18 into 19, right? Like you knew that Josh Allen just didn't have the offensive line his rookie season. Then he signed was it like 11 unrestricted free agent offensive lineman or something like that to really try to fix it. And and through that process, they found a Mitch Morris and a John Feliciano and a Daryl Williams and a um Tyen Seki. And it was like a nice job.

[00:12:36]and you're like, "Yeah, this guy's going to fix weaknesses." And then, you know, maybe since then it's it's not been quite that drastic and you feel like, "Well, why are we continuing to talk about the same stuff?" Um, so I can understand that the uh the the other part of that question is like, have they set themselves up to do something like this in the future? I think the volume of draft picks tells that story. Um, but h has there been enough hits? Has there been enough known commodities within these heavy draft classes that are pushing 10 players? And and not to to to transition you into where you want to take this conversation, but we just did and it debuted last night and there's more to come this week. We just did this project with, you know, 15 people that do Bill's content, you know, podcasters, some reporters of the 10 most important players to the future of the Bills. And Jeremy, there's zero draft picks in the top 10 from the last two years. There's one draft pick in the last three and it's Cole Bishop.

[00:13:40]>> Like that's a problem. That that's that's the issue. Like I think they've added some good veterans along the way.

[00:13:46]The problem is 15 people got together and could only find one pick made over the last three years that we think as a group are of the most important players to the future of the team. their last three drafts. Like that's that's the issue. That's the issue. And hopefully we learn a lot more about those classes very soon and those players can provide some impact and you can complement your good veteran acquisition with some, you know, really good young players. You've you've done the volume approach. Now it's time for it to come together and for these guys to to make an impact on this football team.

[00:14:22]>> Joe Marino of Locked on Bills podcast.

[00:14:24]All right. the rest of the top 10. You mentioned uh your project here, the Bills, the top 10 most important players. One draft pick on that list of the last three years is kind of wild.

[00:14:33]What else surprised you or or what else did you take away from it? I know DJ Moore ends up being number two and that might be just like hunger for a new playmaker. This this is an indication maybe of how much Bills fans had been waiting to see not only a new player in, but somebody that they can uh believe can make an immediate impact. What else did you take away from the top 10?

[00:14:56]>> I'm I think I'm just generally surprised year-over-year how different the top five looks. Like we're we're talking about a collaborative look at the most important players to the future. And for the fi the top five to be turned over like it does every year is kind of surprising to me. Especially that two spot. There's been a different player in the number two spot four years in a row. Of course, you know, there's no surprise Josh Allen's won, but it's it went from Diggs to Concaid to Rouso in 2025 to DJ Moore this year.

[00:15:27]>> Yeah.

[00:15:28]>> And I I think that it speaks to this conversation that's going on a few years where it's like it's Josh Allen and who >> and and I'm not saying there's not good players like that. Don't get me wrong, the Bills have a lot of very good players, but the other, hey, this is our cornerstone premier talent to go with our generational quarterback. Like, I I think the the lack of consistency of of pointing your finger to those players is has become difficult. Of course, James Cook, you know, has really become a guy here, but, you know, it was it was this was the first year he was even on the top 10, right? he gets in at number four this year. But I think it's that I think it's the top five and how interchangeable it's been and especially that number two spot where for four years in a row we haven't been able to figure out who the second most important player of the future of the team is with any type of consistency.

[00:16:18]>> To that point, like it'd be one thing if it two moved because the top four were always the same. But if I'm thinking about the Chiefs when they won their series of Super Bowls, Chris Jones is in the top three every time, right? It's it's Mahomes Jones Kelsey. It's Mahomes McDuffy Jones.

[00:16:34]And the where is the number two player dropping to every year? Because to me that's another part of it, right? It's not like like when Concaid was two, where did he drop to? When Rouso was two, where did he drop to? Because there's such volatility in who we think their second best player or second most important player would be.

[00:16:55]>> Well, to answer the question, Diggs was number two. He went to not on the team.

[00:16:59]Uh Concade went from two to eight in 24 to 25. Uh, Grouso from 25 to 26 goes from two to six. Right. They're they're dropping big.

[00:17:12]>> It's like the Madden curse, right?

[00:17:13]Right. The number two curse. [laughter] >> Well, we need DJ Moore to break that this year because boy, if that investment doesn't work out, that's, you know, that's going to be trouble.

[00:17:21]>> What What's the bar for him on that?

[00:17:23]like not not you know what's a success but him being two next year like really I feel like Joe if he just upgrades on what they've been at that position and gives them a guy in critical situations and lives up to the hype of what a thousandy receiver like feel like there's a a good chance a good chance that he would be back in a spot like that next year. Yeah, and I think I think it's difficult to to measure it with catches and yards. I know that's silly. I think there's probably a baseline. Yeah, you need he needs to be a thousand yard receiver for this offense. But I think the the combination of that plus seeing how it unlocks more of your other pieces, right? To see Concaid and Shakir benefit um from that and you know, whoever that that other guy's going to be. Um to see the Bills be able to take better advantage of the looks they get, right? that we, you know, we'd spend a man coverage having like, can anybody just beat this man coverage because you're getting really good looks to throw the football to see the Bills be able to to have a passing game that doesn't look, you know, hard for Josh Allen to operate and make plays. Um, I think we'll feel it. You know, I think we'll know this is a a passing game that shows more rhythm and consistency, that has a go-to player that the other weapons benefit from, that the quarterback doesn't it doesn't look like he's having as difficult of a time, you know, manufacturing offense that they can lean more into the pass and not be the most run aggressive team in the league. You know, I think all of that will will be part of DJ Moore's impact and where where those things go.

[00:18:58]I think we'll give a lot of credit to DJ Moore and um you know, obviously a lot for him is last couple years haven't haven't been what he wants him to be, especially last season. Uh really good career, but that was the least productive season, including his rookie season. He's played with some bad quarterbacks, right, and for some questionable uh offensive, you know, coordinators. That wasn't the case last year. And so, um, you know, the the resurrection, if you will, the urgency, I'm sure Josh Allen also, you know, back-to-back seasons under 4,000 yards passing. I'm sure these guys are feeling it and want to make this work. And, you know, there's obviously a lot a lot riding on that.

[00:19:32]>> Joe Marino, locked on Bill's podcast.

[00:19:34]You can catch the episode, the top 10 most important bills, the panel, all a part of it. Joe, before we let you go, of course, the big news in the division, AJ Brown, the Patriots. Um, how significant is it in terms of the the Bills ability to match up with New England? And does the Davis and Egenosen signing look better now? Because, you know, the Bills wanted to make sure they have enough bodies at corner and New England is a team that is now all of a sudden, if I could say, flush at receiver. Like, they they've got a good group.

[00:20:03]Yeah, I I think you know IGB for sure, but Christian Benford's the guy that I always anytime the Bills play a an AJ Brown or you know Jamar Chase, I'm like thank god Christian Benford exists because he's the guy that you feel good about. Even Nico Collins, there's been some success there. Um that's the guy that you feel like is your your big physical corner, you know, competitive uh to go up against him. So, you know, I like IGP and he's got kind of a like a a narrow build for his style, right? So, um I think he's more like a you're you're glad you have IGB when you go up against T. Higgins, if that makes sense.

[00:20:37]Like that style of receiver. So, um but yeah, obviously your your outlook on this move for New England just is rooted in what you think is the future for AJ Brown, obviously. And and 2025 was not a good season for AJ Brown. He still cleared a thousand yards, but I the separation data was down. The the uh the max velocity numbers were concerningly low. Um, and you're wondering, okay, is this just frustrations with Jaylen Herz and a offensive scheme that just doesn't doesn't look NFL caliber or is this decline for uh well then last year he's 28 years old. Now he's going to turn 29 later this month. Is this a is this a latestage Dez Bryant player? Is this a latestage Alshon Jeffrey type player?

[00:21:21]You know, I think I think or is he you know, obviously we're learning that he screw up this Patriots fan. He loves Mike Frael. Are you going to get this reinvigorated version of AJ Brown? If you do, then that's, you know, that's an A-list that's an A-list receiver. If if 2025 was the start of decline, well, then the Patriots just gave away a first round pick for uh disappointing addition. So, we'll see what AJ Brown does here. I think there's plenty of, you know, plenty of reasons you could talk yourself in either outcome there.

[00:21:46]>> Joe Marino, Lockdown Bills podcast. Find everything he does at the joemarino.com.

[00:21:50]The latest episode of the Lockdown Bills podcast has the top 10 most important Bills players going forward. Make sure you uh give it a listen. Joe, thanks again.

[00:21:59]>> All right, guys. Thank you.

[00:22:00]>> Joe Marino 8030550. Our phone number 18885502550.

[00:22:06]ESPN's football power index lists the most likely Super Bowl matchup as Rams Bills.

[00:22:14]>> Mhm. Not surprising. And to put the Bills there, I also saw Eric Edholm NFL.com had his teams under the microscope rankings. And your number one team was >> the Bills.

[00:22:27]>> Yep. Number one. Number two is the Rams.

[00:22:29]>> Under the microscope.

[00:22:30]>> Number two is the Rams. Like these these are the teams with expectations.

[00:22:34]>> How about that point? Is >> that a bullet? Is that a bulletin board material? No, because that's not necessarily a criticism, is it?

[00:22:38]>> I mean, they're the second favorite, >> guys. We're under the microscope.

[00:22:42]>> Get that microscope out of here.

[00:22:46]that that that's uh the first game they do the weed the charge whoever's doing it grabs a microscope smash >> spikes it on the ground smashing it into a million pieces.

[00:23:00]>> How about that point though that Joe made where he does this every year and the number two player is just somebody else >> every year.

[00:23:06]>> Maybe this year this will be the second best player or second most important player. Maybe this year someone goes to elite status. Last year we said Russo.

[00:23:14]>> Mhm.

[00:23:14]>> The panel said Russo last year. Two years ago King Kade. Like now it's DJ Moore. Who will it be next year?

[00:23:21]Hopefully it's someone like >> TJ Sanders. TJ Parker because oh man, this guy this guy's amazing. Bradley Chub because he had such a such a great season where you're like, "Oh, well that guy was so important. I'm just going to put him in that spot again next year."

[00:23:35]>> You want somebody to actually earn the right of being this guy is so good. He has to be number two.

[00:23:40]Hey, this guy's number two because please come save and fix my problem, >> which is always good, but you're hoping somebody kind of separates. We'll get Sal's thoughts. S was at OTAAS yesterday, had a little bit of media.

[00:23:55]Pete Carmichael, the Bills offensive coordinator, spoke with the media. We'll break that down and the move from one player going from the offensive side to the defensive side. They call it the George Wilson, do they? But George Wilson, >> right? George Wilson moved from receiver to safety.

[00:24:12]>> Yes, he did. That's probably the most dramatic position change.

[00:24:15]>> Who else? Who else moved from offense?

[00:24:18]>> It worked.

[00:24:18]>> Um Mike Jasper is a name.

[00:24:21]>> He doesn't count.

[00:24:22]>> No.

[00:24:22]>> The 400B defensive tackle.

[00:24:25]>> Do you move positions?

[00:24:25]>> What? They try to move him to >> This guy's a rugby player.

[00:24:27]>> Offensive line. He was on the offensive line last year. Now he's on the defensive line. Travis Clayton.

[00:24:32]>> He was a rugby player learning the offensive >> true line. We'll get sales thoughts.

[00:24:37]8030550 game one of the NBA finals tonight. Steve Ashurner NBA.com joins us at 8:00 to preview it. And I've got a good good uh question for you guys all about Webyama uh when we wrap that up.

[00:24:50]803 0550 Jeremy and Joe on WGR.