Hair Loss Lab Podcast Dr. Daniel Danyo | North Atlanta Hair Restoration

Added: 2026-06-09

[00:00:04]Guys, I'm here in Alfreda with my good friend Dr. Daniel and I've been just shown around this place and I have got to say and well, I'll say it verbatim.

[00:00:17]It's it's the classiest hair restoration clinic I've ever been around. It's like it's like a spa. It's unbelievable. Um I mean I don't know where to start. Uh this place is fantastic. The the town itself, the the building that you're in, the entire premises have the uh the southern hospitality.

[00:00:41]>> Yeah, it's just well, it's just so classy. But you know, it's incredible to be here. Um I flown in today as part of the hair loss lab to introduce and make more people aware of of Dr. Daniel and he's uh we've been working together for well nearly a couple of years now, but we've been in touch for several throughout the years just constantly sharing information. We we we definitely are on the same page in terms of wanting to educate patients and provide patients information transparently. And it's an honor to be in your studio here at your clinic. And so LRA te tell us a little bit tell the audience listening a little bit about yourself where you're located and the incredible work that you do here.

[00:01:35]>> Sure. Um well I um originally I'm from Pennsylvania. Came down to Atlanta. I met my wife uh like the first week I was down here and uh stayed here with my family. We're in Alfredo which is um about 45 minutes north of the airport.

[00:01:52]So about 30 minutes north of Atlanta and it's a beautiful area. And um kind of my history of being a physician, I've been in medicine since 1990. That's when I started medical school.

[00:02:04]>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:02:05]>> And um and then did a year of surgery after that and then physical medicine and rehab. I did a brain injury rehabilitation fellowship and then an interventional pain fellowship. So the interesting thing about uh this whole kind of brain injury and rehabilitation uh side of me is that I have seen the worst of the worst. I'm talking people that were in the hospital where you could hear the staff saying we should just let them go. I mean, multi-trauma, severe brain injury patients, and then it was up to me to bring them onto the rehab unit sometimes for two to three months, follow them out sometimes for years. And I saw potential in in recovery that, you know, very few doctors see. And I had a a perspective of patience following these people out and having just an attitude of gratitude and more of a um we're going to we're going to do the best we can and get you as close to 100%. Now people think, oh, if I had a spinal cord injury or brain injury, just let me go. It's not true.

[00:03:18]People want to live and suicide rates for people that have spinal cord injuries that can actually do it.

[00:03:26]>> Yeah.

[00:03:26]>> Yeah. it's equal to the general population. So, people want to live. And so, this um these recoveries that I saw and following these people out >> um and leading a team um is so vital to what I do here in hair restoration because we have a a great team here. we um are kind of dealing obviously with a different situation with with hair restoration, but I think there's almost an equal devastation when there's hair loss.

[00:03:56]>> Yeah. Well, that perspective you just talked about there and discussed >> is something just witnessing walking into your clinic here is like I've said, this is so calm, this is so elegant, this is so classy, this is like there there's no anxiety shifts when you walk through when you when you approach the building. like even walking through the town it's just it's like it's it's synergistic. So I have to say I think I think your insight there into what real trauma is, what real kind of pain and and you know uh real life issues have transcended from that based on your own personal experience of losing your hair.

[00:04:35]Yes. into creating a a an incredible uh kind of facility here that eases that patient's kind of um kind of anxiety into as we know as hair loss sufferers going into that leap of faith of hair restoration, hair transplant surgery that you are holding their hand before they've even walked in the door because it's just so calm. It's just it's just smooth and and I I I I think that's come from >> your life experience of what you've encountered and what you've witnessed and I think that is is represented in your clinic here uniquely. Sure.

[00:05:20]>> It really is.

[00:05:21]>> You know, I I'll give a a quick patient um that was really just a shining star for me. It was a younger patient 15 years old that um got bitten by a mosquito at camp and had a severe encphylopathy was essentially in a vegetative state for over 12 months and uh she was the only child. Her parents had heard about me and they said we'd like to bring her in but the only way we can bring her is by an ambulance. And I said well let's do this. uh we we um stop seeing patients at 12:00. Why don't you come in at 12, we'll have the ambulance come and I will spend as much time as needed with you. And we spent about 2 and a half three hours.

[00:06:09]And she was on so much medicine. I mean it really sedated with anti-seizure medicines, anti- vomma, uh or vomit medications, um you know, sleep medications, all this stuff. Nobody ever gave her any rehabilitation for an entire year. This is now a 16-year-old girl >> with desperate parents. And her responses were so delayed, but she was there. And I called the insurance company. And I said, "Listen, you need to give me two to three months of inpatient rehabilitation with this patient. I'm going to wean her off all the medications and we are going to get her going and uh we're going to have an impact. I can say this with, you know, unbelievable um humility. Uh she is married. Wow.

[00:07:03]>> She graduated college and as a sumo kumlady >> and she is a physical therapist. So, >> wow.

[00:07:11]>> But that was me as a physician taking on a different tact, not looking at the dogma of what medicine tells us to do.

[00:07:20]>> Well, >> helping her through a very very difficult period.

[00:07:24]>> So, in hair restoration, there's so much dogma related to how doctors are trained and how they treat patients.

[00:07:32]>> Yeah. And a simple thing like when can I wash my hair? I mean I've heard as as long as 10 days and our thing is you can even wash the night of the procedure.

[00:07:42]>> Why do you want all these scabs and why wound healing? The the evidence shows that you need to clean wounds. Now you have >> if you do 2,000 graphs, you have 4,000 wounds on your head.

[00:07:55]>> Clean the damn thing. So um you know but that dogma is is scripted into how patients are treated and it's wrong because not washing for 10 days is gross. It's humiliating. It it leads to isolation and despair and we're getting back into working out. I want this experience to be uh great from the start. We do the podcast to educate people, get us uh get people knowing our clinic.

[00:08:26]>> Yeah. Yeah.

[00:08:27]>> And um when they come to Alfreda, they're like, "Wow, this is a special place." They come to the office and meet the staff. We just compound, you know, all those feelings and then it touches off the recovery, which I want a blip on the radar screen. I don't want this to be a major life event. I want it to be uh something that's uh empathetic to your needs. I've been through it three times, had my head shaved three times, and for me it was it isolated me. You know, we talked on camera, I felt depressed.

[00:08:59]>> Yeah. Yeah.

[00:08:59]>> Well, just on that point of like, you know, just coming into your clinic today, it's like you walk in here >> and it's like a it's like a spa, but it's it's it's not it's not it's not you're not trying too hard in in the sense that you're at a spa. It is just calm. It is relaxing. It is it is just like um what patients essentially need.

[00:09:23]>> Yes.

[00:09:23]>> And you've obviously hit the nail on the head in terms of providing them that that really clean experience through.

[00:09:30]But doc, obviously what's really important I mean I'm I'm so honored to be here in your podcast like presenting the hair loss lab my podcast. I've brought in here today for you some merch. I've got the doc his own uh his own cap and he's got all the merchandise. But we're here today more importantly >> to Oh, you've got to show them the t-shirt.

[00:09:56]>> Yeah. Right there.

[00:09:57]>> Yeah.

[00:09:57]>> So, but what's an honor is to be in this studio with Dr. Dan to discuss hair loss and hair restoration because we can sit here and talk to you about how great the clinic is. And the reason that I've done that is to just give you a bit of an insight into the man that is performing surgery, who has had surgery, who knows what those patients are going through. I've had 13 hair transplants myself, so I know the process, but it's it's incredibly empowering for me and reassuring when I work with surgeons. Do Dr. Dan is part of Specs Hair. He's a part of a gentleman's best hair transplant surgeries in the world, which is predominantly about education. It's not about a list to backs slap, to inflate egos. It's about education. And what Doc is providing here is a seamless education process without people even realizing that they are learning.

[00:10:56]They're like they're experiencing your experience of what is important to the patient. Yes.

[00:11:05]>> And that takes some doing because I've been to countless hair transplant clinics. I'm on a bit of a tour at the moment going around America. And I could probably go on record now and say if any clinic I I feel bad calling it a clinic, but if the if any doctor's practice >> Yeah.

[00:11:27]>> can carry a a torch to this, I will be impressed because I could actually give you the spec hair seal of approval. This place is a 10 out of 10. I think it's an 11 out of 10. But you know, and that's all credit to you. But more importantly, Doc, because I we've got to get into the nuts and bolts, what people want to listen to is like is hair loss.

[00:11:47]>> Yes.

[00:11:47]>> And hair restoration. And I suppose my question to you being so experienced in this field, what what is the most misunderstood component of getting a hair transplant procedure? And what I mean by that is it's like everybody just like now with social media, everybody's just kind of like, "Ah, right. I'm going to get this done. I'm going to go to Turkey. It'll be cheap. It'll be affordable." But what are the what in your opinion and we'll discuss this are the real kind of misconceptions are misinformed and why why do you feel that is >> yeah I think the uh the biggest thing is that there is no person that is the same and everyone's life experience is same is not the same everyone's psychologic state is not the same so if you um kind of take a cookie cutter approach to hair transplant plan and say all you're doing is moving a hair from here to here. Um that is the wrong concept. And what happens is you have these uh kind of budget places that um charge extremely low uh costs and um and really in the states what they charge in other countries I mean the practice would be out of business because you wouldn't be able to to manage your overhead. Um but the thought is uh this is super easy. Uh there are no variables and everything's going to work out great. The thing is nobody is the same and there are massive variables. Just look at me evaluating a patient as a doctor. You know I have to look at past medical history. Is there heart disease, diabetes? Uh what medicines are you taking? What allergies? Um, and and that's the bottom, you know, part of what we're doing. The next part, as far as hair goes, I mean, on the extraction side, there's so many different skin characteristics. For one, you can have very lax skin, very tense skin, very thick skin. Um, it can majorly impact how easy those graphs come out, both on when you place the extractor into the skin and when you pull that. You could have tethered graphs. that could be spled curly graphs. Then you throw in ethnicity. Uh I mean one of the toughest ethnic classes that I treat is actually uh around India, Pakistan. That region the the hair follicles are tough to get out and they have a different >> differentiology. Yeah.

[00:14:21]>> Yes. different makeup compared to somebody from England or you know Nordic descent or um and so you have to take all of this into account as you're grafting. Um there are different density issues. Uh coarseness of hair um tethering of graphs is huge because uh the deeper you go with the extractor the more chance you have to >> you know transsect it. Yeah, >> but if you're not deep enough and you're can't pull it out, it's like pulling dandelions out all day.

[00:14:53]>> And on that point, all the different tools that are out there, but all the different people using those tools. So, is it doctors performing the actual surgery? Exactly. Okay. Which we know.

[00:15:02]Yes.

[00:15:03]>> That is it's kind of >> rare to have a surgeon. Yes.

[00:15:07]>> In the room even performing the surgery.

[00:15:09]Hey.

[00:15:10]>> And you know, >> which people don't understand.

[00:15:12]>> I know. and and people are getting sedated with no medical provider there.

[00:15:17]And in the state of Georgia, if the doctor performing the procedure is doing sedation, that's against the rules.

[00:15:25]>> Wow.

[00:15:26]>> Uh you need to have if you're getting sedated, you need to have another provider, whether a a nurse anesthetist or a a nurse practitioner, a physician's assistant, somebody else needs to be admin administering sedation. But there are clinics all over the place that are sedating people and there's no doctor involved which is I mean it's illegal >> but it's completely unethical and unsafe.

[00:15:54]>> Um >> well that is one point but also there's surgeons that aren't even in the facility and people are scoring the skin. People are performing surgery that >> should not be.

[00:16:06]>> So there's so many different layers to what is actually going on. So when people venturing into hair restoration.

[00:16:13]What they don't realize is it's not a cookie cutter type of procedure.

[00:16:17]>> But one of the biggest conceptions that I think we need to kind of address is, you know, we need we need to pull this back to basics for people that are coming into hair restoration that want to get a hair transplant that think that it's an easy, quick, and potentially affordable fix. But what they don't really understand is that hair loss is progressive and >> it's a glacier that keeps moving >> 100%. And the secret to one of my successes, despite the fact that I've had 13 hair transplants, and my story is unique and it's been well publicized, but the secret to my success is not the hair transplants. It's the preventative treatment and measures I put in place and are religious about. Yes. And the point I'd like you to kind of mention or discuss rather is the importance of preventative treatment because hair loss is progressive. So when people are venturing what they feel is into getting a hair transplant that's going to solve all their problems. If they don't build a wall, or rather they don't build a foundation to build the wall on, >> that wall's gonna fall over in a matter of years, especially depending on how aggressive the hair loss is. Especially with young guys, young guys just think they can go and venture, get a hair transplant. Oh, I won't worry about it when I'm 30. Well, I'm 50. You're you're a couple of years older than me.

[00:17:40]Although it doesn't look like it. It does not look like it.

[00:17:42]>> I think it's the youngest looking 59y old I've ever seen. But the point is this is what the hair loss lab and what Dr. Daniel is all about. It's about education and it's about making people aware that you can go about getting a hair transplant. You can really potentially if you catch this early enough really restore your your resolve your hair loss issues, but you have to go about it the right way. And the right way isn't necessarily the way you want what you want to hear. and and and the hair loss lab and me specs hair Dr. Dan are all about telling people what they need to hear. So tell us a little bit about your opinion, your experience of the patients that you meet that are what I have to take medication. I just thought I could get a hair transplant.

[00:18:30]>> Yeah. Well, I mean you can call it continental drift. You can call it um you know a glacier that keeps on moving.

[00:18:38]Hair loss is relentless, especially if people have a a deep family history of hair loss.

[00:18:44]>> Especially the younger they start as well.

[00:18:45]>> Yeah, exactly. So, I mean, my my opinion on medications for a younger patient with a a strong family history is less um compared to somebody who's like 65, has some thinning, minimal family history, and you're doing the frontal hairline to touch it up. Totally different scenarios. But um DHT is a killer for hair cells. Everyone knows what anabolic steroids do. They build muscle. DHT, which is also in the steroid family, is catabolic. It actually prevents certain pathways, especially something called the W pathway, which is critical for highly metabolic cells to regenerate and produce hair. And uh it literally switches it off or dials it down. and it it creates inflammation, scarring. Uh this is a relentless process that keeps going. So when I talk to patients about medications, there's always like, oh, I don't want uh any chance for sexual dysfunction. Well, the sexual dysfunction if managed properly, I mean, you can use lowdosese finasteride, which works just as well as taking it every day, greatly reduces sexual dysfunction.

[00:19:59]I've been doing it that way since 2016.

[00:20:02]I rarely if ever have people with sexual dysfunction. If I do get it, it's usually pretty rapid and there maybe genetically they're just it might not be the best fit. But I think if if if it caused liver failure, we'd we'd all be on it. You know what I mean? But there's something about sexual dysfunction that just hits guys, you know, right in the sternum and says, "Oh, and and elsewhere." But uh where I just >> they are they do happen. I mean, that's legitimate.

[00:20:34]>> Yes, it is very legitimate.

[00:20:36]>> Yeah, definitely. But we're not we're not saying that that isn't. But it's about there is a way to try and navigate that if you're susceptible to those side effects because I never experienced any of the side effects. And there's loads of urban myths as well around medication. You know, for instance, it uh it decreases kind of fertility. Well, I was on finestide for well over 10 years, and I at first attempt, my wife and I conceived twins, boy and girl. I like, Jesus, this is a fertility drug, you know. So, we can counteract any argument there. But, you know, I I say that, you know, respectfully to people that do have concerns around all the issues that arrive with with uh finestide. But, nonetheless, I think it's important that the argument is balanced. not argument that the discussion is balanced. Yes. Because I'm not necessarily saying that finasteride is a fertility treatment, but that was my personal experience. And uh you know it's it's important because doctor you ex you you've witnessed so many countless patients that have have had legitimate side effects.

[00:21:34]>> Sure. And unfortunately in my practice it's about 50/50. I mean is it really?

[00:21:39]>> Yeah. And you know there are plenty of clinics that say if you don't go on finasteride or dutastasteride I'm not going to do the surgery which I think is wrong. I mean this is a personal journey uh I'm here to help. It >> just needs to navigate that that process that long-term plan needs to be altered.

[00:21:55]>> Alter but the people that are on oral medications finasteride or dutasteride I like dutasteride better.

[00:22:04]>> Um I'm on that now actually been several years.

[00:22:06]>> I think it's a lot better.

[00:22:07]>> Yeah. um you know hits both um types of the enzyme that that produce DHT uh and is you know stronger with a longer halflife um I don't see as much sexual dysfunction on dutasteride yeah and I rarely see it with finasteride so again if prescribed correctly uh it can be managed uh and then oral minoxidil that combination >> yeah that's that's a really positive kind of introduction I think people have been experiencing really positive effects from >> Oh absolutely and then you know u if you don't want to take pills I mean there are uh prescription topicals with with less chance of systemic absorption >> but again this is really important you see and and people don't really what we're trying to make people understand is everybody's so different on they yes and everybody responds so differently so it's very difficult to give each individual patient the best possible plan of action for them because they kind of have to go through that process themselves to see what works.

[00:23:08]>> But it talks about everybody's different, everybody's, you know, it's it's kind of like um I'm listening to a book right now, great, called the psychology of money. And you know, there are people that have no education, didn't even finish high school, that died as multi-millionaires >> because of their behavior, because of their psychology, of how they their life experience, of how they they deal with money. Then you have people that are Harvard trained and have all this the finance degrees and all that stuff that end up >> bankrupt, broke, you know what I mean?

[00:23:42]Or all the you think of all these athletes, you know what I mean?

[00:23:45]>> Yeah. Yeah.

[00:23:46]>> So there's a huge psychology and money, but there's a massive psychology in hair loss.

[00:23:52]>> Um and the medications are one, the before um issues before getting a hair transplant. I I feel people over research. They rely too much on things like Reddit, people's comments that had like a negative um you know issue. Maybe >> you have too much information. Yeah.

[00:24:11]>> And people are bugeyed when they come in. I generally tell people when they book with us because I generally talk with them before, just turn everything off, please. We have plenty of information that we're going to give you that's specific to what your experience is going to be pre-op posttop and it's just noise. And the people that listen to me, they come in, it's usually high fives and hugs. If people are overressearched, they are nervous. You can tell >> hypervigilant. Oh yeah.

[00:24:44]>> Yeah. Yeah.

[00:24:44]>> And then it takes hours until they finally say, "My gosh, this is so much better than I ever thought." What's interesting your background is pain.

[00:24:51]>> Yes.

[00:24:52]>> And I've uh alongside my whole journey with hair loss. I've been uh I've been unfortunately uh not not recently but for years in a severe amount of different pain elements like had a bad back then that transcended into a bad like like upper back then my shoulder >> and the whole kind of retrospectively what I realized is there was definitely a physical issue that caused me to have the symptom but what happened is I became like a pain procrastinator and you become hypervigilant and you become super aware. So if then like I would roll my ankle or I do I'd be like, "Oh no, I'm going to be in pain for so many weeks because of" because the brain is such a powerful tool. Absolutely. And that is something I'm sure you've witnessed with a lot of people that have been in pain. But I found such a correlation between that and my hair loss journey because once hair loss is on your radar, it is like you're super aware. You're checking every mirror, every scenario, every every every photo. It is like a goto, like a preerequisite. It's like subconscious you're thinking about and that just compounds the issue so much and keeps that doom. I've discussed it on a recent podcast, the doom loop of that cycle.

[00:26:12]So, in line with what you just said of like there's too much information. Put it down. Don't re Don't research it too much. Get the facts. Get the basics. at the premise and then trusting people like yourself to guide you accordingly because we're our own worst enemy in so many scenarios and hair loss 100%. Big time >> because that negative thought that loop is only putting a stress on the nervous system which is then putting you in that fight and flight which is then just amplifying all your con all your thought processes around hair loss.

[00:26:45]>> Yes.

[00:26:46]>> So isn't that fascinating? I found it with pain as well.

[00:26:49]>> Sure.

[00:26:50]Well, you know, um, if you get the chance, I'm going to give a a little plug on YouTube. Uh, watch Eric Church's graduation speech at North Carolina, >> and it is unbelievable. He's he's a country singer, very famous, but he he takes life and puts it into the six strings of the guitar, >> right?

[00:27:10]>> And the last one is the E string. It's the the the smallest string. It's the most easily bent. It's the one that is who you are because it carries the melody, you know, of the guitar, but it carries the melody of your life.

[00:27:27]>> And he talks about um that so many people um wait an entire lifetime for an opportunity to have greatness that never presents itself.

[00:27:41]>> You have to go out and let that music ring through your own Ering. And I I I think the same thing is with hair. You have to go into this very positive. You right from the start. Um it it can't be gloom and doom. It can't be, well, I saw this and I saw that and there, you know, I I get this all the time. And unfortunately, I think it's the younger generation that is just really involved in these chat rooms and this and that.

[00:28:10]It's easy to be pulled down into a mindset of and unfortunately there is unfort when when we were growing up >> yes >> the amount of information that was available on different topics was nowhere now there's countless information on every single and everything kind of contradicts everything else. It's like these this younger generation that are coming up and being exposed to all this, bless them, they don't know which way is up, you know, and often sometimes ignorance is bliss.

[00:28:41]>> Yes. You know, >> well, you know, uh the interesting thing is in my pain management practice, I used to be located uh closer to Atlanta.

[00:28:49]So, I had, you know, higher educated uh more control oriented patients.

[00:28:56]>> Yeah. that oftentimes came in um with too much information, worried about getting a procedure done. Uh their outcomes didn't seem as s as as good.

[00:29:07]And then I moved about 15 miles north.

[00:29:10]Uh and it was a completely different population and I had better outcomes, better procedures for patients because their attitude was doc you know best and I totally trust you.

[00:29:25]>> Yeah. And um so it's just that psychology uh that's different, you know, and we talked about the psychology of money. It's it's the same thing, hair loss, but psychology is key. So my my um general thing is you need to take the information from experts. I think it's very easy to >> There's so many of them out there now.

[00:29:50]Hey, >> I know. But but >> everyone's an expert.

[00:29:53]>> Yeah. But to go on on um you know on Reddit or some of these platforms where you have a patient that had a bad experience but is a great writer and is a great communicator and is communicating stuff and we call that in medicine an N of one number of one. A study that has one patient in it is invalid.

[00:30:13]>> Yeah.

[00:30:13]>> It it's just not valid. And you have to go into the same thinking that somebody's comments are not your life experience and they're not doesn't have the same variables.

[00:30:25]>> Well, this was kind of why I wanted to create an environment and a platform to relay information to people based on experience. Now, I'm not saying every I'm not I'm not the oracle, okay? I don't know the answers to everything.

[00:30:43]Neither do you. But what we do have and what we can relay to people is experience. And I think there's a great deal of kind of uh value when creating trust with people from experience that is authentic and legitimate. People take a huge value in that and people can see straight through what is not legit and what is legit.

[00:31:09]>> You know, so I just dropped my water.

[00:31:11]Uh, I'm looking at your cup right here.

[00:31:13]I mean, this is incredible. I mean, you look at it. Educate, empower, elevate. I mean, >> what can you say?

[00:31:22]>> Putting I'm putting the onus on to you guys. Yeah.

[00:31:25]>> To do your own due diligence. I can point you in the right direction, but it's up to you because then if you can, you've got to go through sometimes you got to go through this journey. If you ever read The Alchemist, great book.

[00:31:37]Okay. It's like he pretty much finishes where he started, but the journey has taught him so much. And that's what I'm about. And that's why I've created the the hair loss lab. And that's why I'm so proud to have you actually as my official first guest on the hair loss lab in your studio because I want patients to have the ability to see how legitimate this conversation is. This isn't manufactured. We're shooting from the hip. I've come in on the red eye.

[00:32:06]But there's nothing I don't enjoy more than talking with people, like-minded people.

[00:32:11]>> If you give you two Tylenol, >> but that's what this is about. And that's why it's so easy to discuss it and so easy that the conversation just flows because we're talking about something that we love and we're passionate about, but the crux of it is trying to help and educate people in the right direction because there's so much information out there. But doc, what I do want to ask you is, you know, you've told us a lot about yourself and your journey and how you got here. Tell us about a case or a patient, and there must be many of them, but one that's really stood out that makes you smile and go, "That's why I do what I do."

[00:32:51]>> Yeah.

[00:32:52]Well, I can think of um a 24 year old patient that at age 22, so he is a senior in college um was having headaches, gets an MRI, and they found a um not a glyopblastoma, but an illegodendro uh um glyoma, which is not quite as aggressive, and it can be treated um successfully with surgery and with radiation. Unfortunately, um he went through a big surgery with a big scar right here and um had radiation which gave him radiation induced alipcia.

[00:33:31]And so uh he came in uh with uh his mother who was just so supportive and his sister who dearly loved him and his father and um we said uh I said we can we can help you out. He had gone to multiple clinics before and they said, "Oh, it's not going to work in the scar.

[00:33:52]The radiation induced alipcia, it's not a good um, you know, type thing." And, you know, have you considered topic or or a hairpiece. I mean, this at this point a 24 year old kid who did not graduate. He he did went through two years of treatment with this. So, anyway, we ended up saying, "No, uh, we can do hair transplant." And we did actually a shaveless procedure. So we didn't shave his head. We kept everything long in the donor site which honored him, empowered him. I I my my thought was you've already had a shaved head.

[00:34:27]>> Yeah.

[00:34:27]>> You know what I mean? I don't want to put you through the agony of this, but we do this very frequently. So we did a shadeless procedure >> and um anyway, he was back at school and then he came back at five months and I saw him on the schedule. And I said, "He seems to be back early." And I was thinking, "Oh my gosh, did something go wrong?"

[00:34:49]>> So I walk into the room and he has a a baseball hat on and he took it off and I'm telling you, full coverage and his hair had grown that much after five months.

[00:34:59]>> After five months, it's like he never lost any of the follow or the hair within the follicles.

[00:35:03]>> Been chuffed like, >> "Oh my gosh." And then I I literally I got emotional thinking about it. I uh I said, "I'll be right back." adverse into the tears.

[00:35:14]>> Oh, bless you, man. Oh, I can see you emotional now. Yeah, that's amazing. How beautiful. Oh, yeah. To change someone's life like that.

[00:35:23]>> Yeah. And so I came back in and it was, you know, one big group hug, all the staff. Yeah.

[00:35:31]>> And you know, he said, >> "Oh, well done, man."

[00:35:33]>> Oh, yeah. No, he said, um, you know, you um, you got my life back, >> you know. Yeah.

[00:35:40]>> Well done. Oh, yeah. That's amazing. and and I and I I finally closed this chapter of this brain tumor and this scar, you know, all the uh all the garbage, you know, um associated with that and you know, he's graduated. Um we've had follow-ups. He's so happy. I mean, he's just >> Oh, man. I did I genuinely didn't I that question, as you realize, was not >> premeditated. I and I didn't realize I was going to make you as emotional as that. But I think that goes to show how incredibly authentic this this man is and how much it means to him to change people's lives. And that's why I'm so proud to have you a part of what I do because I can assure you there's not many surgeons out there that have that true like passion to be able to help change people's lives. So, you know, I'm I'm like I I don't know. I'm speechless myself and so thank you so much for sharing that with us.

[00:36:42]>> Yeah, but you know my general thought is concealment is key for hair transplants and we do uh no shave and even long hair procedures um for concealment. Most of my patients are not like just totally bald, you know what I mean? We do a lot of frontal hairline work, a lot of crown work, a lot of professionals. We're just, you know, people that just they do not want anyone to know. I've had people that aren't even telling their spouse.

[00:37:07]>> Yeah. Oh, that's a common both ways. I'm >> That's hard work.

[00:37:10]>> You know, like the wife not telling the husband.

[00:37:12]>> Energy it takes for a husband to go through this process and not tell his wife.

[00:37:17]>> Oh, yeah.

[00:37:19]>> I And I tell I don't I I wish she was involved, but that's your decision. But um >> it make it so much easier. And the irony is the wives would be like, "Oh, darling." Like, "Oh gosh, I didn't realize. Let let me help you." And then that burden the burden we carry as hair loss sufferers.

[00:37:35]>> Yes.

[00:37:35]>> Is insane. Oh yeah. But you know, people are still they don't they still don't believe that their donor site is going to look the same as when they walked in.

[00:37:44]Even when we do 2,000 graphs, their donor site looks the same. Um we use DHI. I've been doing that since 2013. Um it's very clean. We don't have a lot of tscent fluid to lift the skin off the scalp. When you do pre-slits, we have minimal swelling, minimal pain. I don't really sedate anybody. everybody is fully awake, but with my pain management skills, I I can really numb people up quickly, very easily. They're relaxed.

[00:38:13]Most people fall asleep. Um, and I want, you know, these clinics that just sedate people. I've had so many patients have, uh, you know, hair transplants at other places and I'm like, "How many graphs did you have?" And they're like, "I don't remember a thing of the day."

[00:38:27]>> That's frightening.

[00:38:28]>> It's frightening.

[00:38:29]>> And so, what are they concealing? For one, yeah, in a lot of these places that do this, the doctor's not involved, and the patient doesn't know.

[00:38:38]>> I want people to be awake. They can hear us counting. Uh they are they they know exactly what they're paying for. Um and we're very um you know, open with how we do it.

[00:38:51]>> Um they can visualize the graphs. Um and they remember a great day. But at the end of the day with these shayless cases, especially long-haired cases, I mean it their spouse comes in and they come in kind of shy and lots of trepidation. They're like, "Oh my gosh, you know, no bandages, minimal bleeding." Um, and that is uh for me just an absolute joy. Now, you know, a lot of uh physicians offices don't do shaveless, they don't do long hair.

[00:39:21]>> Yeah. Yeah. And I always >> because it's essentially a lot easier.

[00:39:24]Oh yeah. Yeah. But you know we work on efficiency you know we work on team approach. We can do I can do a shaveless procedure as fast as somebody can do a shaved.

[00:39:38]>> Wow.

[00:39:38]>> Yeah.

[00:39:38]>> Interesting.

[00:39:39]>> Yeah. So obviously Doug there's a you know a a a really important factor which people again going into hair restoration don't understand the importance of donor management and the fact that hair restoration is a hell of a journey. It is not something that you could just venture into and not be too concerned down the line. Even if you're taking preventative treatments, even if you're you got no genetic like history of hair loss other than kind of minor hair loss, the a very ethical surgeon such as Dr. Dan is the fact that they are always kind of like a like a snooker player, three shots ahead of playing the one that they're playing and always thinking long term preserving that donor's supply so that there's always kind of bricks in the bank to build the house. Yeah.

[00:40:33]>> So tell me about your philosophy about donor management and how you whenever you treat a patient of how that is at the forefront of your mind.

[00:40:44]>> Sure. Um, so, uh, you know, everyone's heard of like the Norwood scale and all that stuff, but my >> explain that briefly, like just the Norwood scale of how briefly in terms of one to seven and how that works.

[00:40:57]>> Yeah. I mean, uh, you've got one to seven, one being just, you know, mild recession generally. That's more natural recession, not >> Yeah. people can deal with that or, you know, uh, it's generally once it starts creeping past that, >> then that's when start the hair loss demons start to creep in.

[00:41:13]>> Exactly. And then you know obviously it progress where it goes in you know further back and then into the crown and then the middle scalp. So um >> and it's a general it's a generalization the norwood scale. It doesn't follow it like verbatim. It is just to give an overall perspective on the different scales of hair loss.

[00:41:32]>> Sure. Yeah. And then you also have to take in how big is the is the head and and how much hair loss is there on the side and how much miniaturaturization is present. you you have to really evaluate the scalp. Um, but you know, the head size is is a huge issue because if you have a really wide head in some it's even long.

[00:41:52]>> I mean, you could potentially double how many graphs are going to be there. So, >> when you look at a donor site, you have to think of it like a bank account and I'm your financial guy managing your account. And if I wasn't Yeah. I mean, I if I told took $10 from your account and you were like, "You just took $10 away."

[00:42:12]>> Yeah.

[00:42:13]>> And I didn't manage it, you would probably let me go. So, in my mind, I >> especially if you need that 10 bucks.

[00:42:19]>> Yes.

[00:42:20]>> You know, >> oh, absolutely.

[00:42:21]>> If you've got millions in the bank account, you take 10 bucks, it's not really going to be that >> principally, they would say, "You're out of here." Yeah. You know what I mean?

[00:42:27]Exactly. So, this is gold to you. And so I'm managing this pot of gold. And so as I'm harvesting, I have to manage it in the way that I'm going to get optimal wound contraure. It's not talked about enough on the web, but anytime you take an FUEE graph, there is a circle. That circle will contract. And if you, let's say, do 2,000, I mean, that's a pretty good harvest right there.

[00:42:54]>> Big impact on the scalp.

[00:42:55]>> That's 2,000 wounds that have to contract. Now if you add another 500 then you've got 500 and and they can start to to kind of compete against each other and you don't get the wound contraction scarring that.

[00:43:08]>> Yes.

[00:43:09]>> So if somebody needs even more than 3,000 graphs especially for five six I've had somebody I've done 12,000 graphs on. What would you say the average in your experience cuz it all varies from patient to patient but on average what do you think the average person Joe blogs off the street has got as a >> donor >> donor supply to work with?

[00:43:32]>> I would say it's between four and maximal 6,000.

[00:43:36]>> Wow. Okay. Yep. That I think safely in the way I do it. Um I mean there are people that say, "Oh, we can get 10,000." Um cuz there's surgeons out there that are are claiming to perform 10 to 12,000 in a session.

[00:43:54]>> I know. I know.

[00:43:55]>> What's your thoughts on that?

[00:43:56]>> I don't agree with it. Yeah. Right.

[00:43:58]>> Yeah. I I think >> But are you you don't agree with it? But are you saying that they're not extracting those numbers of graphs or they are extracting those number of graphs but the repercussions of that down the line are yet to be seen or >> well I mean ethically not put the patient in the best uh situation moving forward.

[00:44:18]>> Well the marketing is such that oh we can do 10,000 graphs and you're going to look like this. Well what are the variables of the patient? You know how long did the patient case take? uh any complications? Do you have pictures of patients that went wrong that had >> But that's not saying that there aren't patients out there with that amount of donor supply available to them.

[00:44:38]>> Exactly. But I'm saying on average, you know what I mean? I agree.

[00:44:42]>> I I've had I' I've done 9,000 from some of these.

[00:44:45]>> I move the parameters of that question there, but thanks for bringing it back.

[00:44:48]>> Yes. Yeah. But I I've done even 9,000, but I I did multiple cases, you know what I mean?

[00:44:54]>> And the impact and the trauma on the scalp do Yes. That amount of graphs in one go alone, even if you've got the donut is is quite an impact on the scalp.

[00:45:02]>> Yes. And people heal differently. Some people have great wound contraction. You go in the second time, you can barely see any evidence that you were there.

[00:45:12]And then you have other people that have big white dots. Yeah. You know, and there's been Oh, I've got them.

[00:45:16]>> Okay. And there's been minimal minimal um you know, wound contraction. And that all relates to laxity and and tenseness in the scalp. Um but um my philosophy if you were coming to me and you needed four or 5,000 graphs, I'm already planning even the first procedure looking at other donor sites. I do a lot of beard extraction under the under the jawline. I do a lot of chest abdominal hair.

[00:45:46]>> Um I I like I like uh the beard hair just because it has a very similar growth cycle.

[00:45:52]>> Yeah. uh as the head hair, >> but it has a completely different characteristic.

[00:45:56]>> Not necessarily. Right.

[00:45:58]>> Yeah. I mean, you have to look at the beard there. I would say there are lesser people that have that really coarse burly hair. Like you don't have super coarse beard hair. Yeah. I don't.

[00:46:08]You know what I mean? It's coarser. But when you're discussing things, if I do 500 beard hair versus 500 head hair, this will look like 750 at least minimal because of the volume. And you just have >> if you'd put that Sorry to interject, you you'd more than uh often utilize that type of hair in areas such as scarring, crown, middle scar.

[00:46:34]>> You wouldn't put that on the hairline.

[00:46:36]>> I've done it on the hairline.

[00:46:36]>> Oh, have you? depending on the hair that you've extracted and it and its characteristics.

[00:46:40]>> Yeah. You know, we do a lot of major repair work, especially for people that have um you know, been through the ringer like starting in the 80s with the plugs and then they had multiple strips and their donor site is shot. And a lot of times they get um these big alleyways of kind of um really severe density loss or even skin transformation because all the transition zones between the side and the top have just kind of sag down.

[00:47:09]So a lot of times we're pulling plugs out, moving them around and then we have no donor site from the head and so we have to do hairlines, side temporal work with beard. Yeah. And I've been pleasantly surprised. Um I think it is way overstated that beard hair because of its coarseness is going to look funny, feel funny. It can be that way if there's a colorization. Some people have really red beard hair and brown hair. It might not be a great match. Although we can pick out the brown hair.

[00:47:45]>> Black hair, ginger beard. It's never a good combo.

[00:47:47]>> Exactly. Um and um but I rarely have people talk about the coarseness. If anything, they if I have to do more, a lot of times we start in the front. If I do 2500 graphs, I love doing 2,000 from the head, >> 500 from the beard, sometimes 1750 from the head or 750 from the beard. We're doing hairline and head, mixing all the beard hair behind it. And a lot of times they come back for a second procedure and they say, "I want more beard hair."

[00:48:18]>> Yeah. Oh, interesting. you like to just kind of distribute that donor supply from v just just spreading out the love, >> but it gives people options because if somebody needs 5,000 graphs and I and they're, you know, let's say they're 30 years old and I blow out their donor supply.

[00:48:35]>> Yeah.

[00:48:35]>> What if they need more? Yeah.

[00:48:36]>> You know what I mean?

[00:48:37]>> Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's what it was down. It's about supply meeting the demand.

[00:48:42]>> Yes.

[00:48:43]>> Short, mid, and long term. Yeah.

[00:48:46]>> And sadly, the the the majority of the emails or contacts or DMs on Instagram that I receive tend to be more people like, "Ah, I up here. I realize I went to Turkey. I went and there's some great clinics in Turkey. I work with a with a number of fantastic surgeons in Turkey."

[00:49:07]But >> the the common story I hear is, "I realize I've messed up. I've didn't do my due diligence. I've went to Turkey and sadly I had I don't even know how many graphs I had. I had I think I've had 5,000 graphs and now that patient is in a much worse situation than he was originally because one he's got to deal with the repercussions of the surgery the on his physiology uh repairing potentially unnatural work in inappropriate areas low low hairline but >> more importantly because that can for the most part be resolved but the most important component is we need the bricks to build the house. So if that donor supply has been exhausted or essentially the limitations that can be presented on patients who've had inappropriate surgery is the biggest issue that we are dealing with today in this industry from a longerterm perspective of helping patients because if we've not got that donor supply to work with, we can't help them repair their situation.

[00:50:19]So this is why venturing into a hair transplant, choosing the right surgeons who's going to manage that donor supply short, mid, and long term is way more important than where you're going to position that hairline or or or the different kind of what they feel are their priorities.

[00:50:39]Yeah.

[00:50:39]>> Initially, >> I I think one of the the toughest things for me to hear from prospective patients is I want one procedure. I want it one and done. I don't want to have to come back.

[00:50:50]>> And and and it it puts every it puts me in a difficult situation. And I've had plenty of patients I said, you know, I'm not your guy. And how many clinics, sorry to interject, >> this is the problem. How many could say, yeah, >> we can do that. We can sort you. We can do this all in one go. No problem. Oh, and actually, we can get you in next week because we've had a cancellation.

[00:51:11]And it's like the the the patient, the client is sold because they're getting told what they want to hear and not what they need to hear. And the fact doc that you've just said, >> I'm not your guy because I can't tell you >> Yeah.

[00:51:26]>> what >> I can't do.

[00:51:28]>> Yes.

[00:51:28]>> And so many clinics >> out there will tell the patients exactly what they want to hear.

[00:51:34]>> And sadly, how many patients are you repairing as a result of that?

[00:51:38]>> Oh, yeah. Well, you know, an interesting thing, um, the International Society of Hair Restoration Surgeons does a survey, you know, like every year, maybe every other year, and one of the questions on there, which I I found is fascinating, is the question was, "When you do a large fernal hairline case, how often do you have to come back a second time to kind of put the cherry on top and get it all built up?" Do you know what that number was? This is internationally.

[00:52:08]How many?

[00:52:08]>> 50%.

[00:52:09]>> No way.

[00:52:10]>> 50%. Now, that's not necessarily my number. Um, but it's not uncommon that people are super happy, but they're like, there's a little spot here and right here, and if you could add a little bit right here, then I'm perfect.

[00:52:26]And there is a subset and I'm going to go back to more younger patients that are just really antsy to get this thing done that um when I have this talk with them, it's unacceptable. And again, I I have I'm in a position now that I can choose my patients. Yeah. You know what I mean? And I think that's a healthy thing because you're >> saying, but it's a shame you can't help more.

[00:52:48]>> Yes. Yeah.

[00:52:49]>> You know, >> and I can usually uh you know, talk people into a reality. Oh, this there's talking people into it or explaining the process more, which then enables people to get educated, go away, do their due diligence, and then realize, geez, this guy wasn't trying to sell me a procedure, he's trying to help me out.

[00:53:06]And that authenticity and that trust that is built is then that's why you're so popular. And people are like, you know, you've got a several a several week waiting list. patients that want to come to you >> because >> not necessarily to like have the procedure done in the sense that oh this guy but because they're going to be guided correct they they feel confident that this guy's going to guide me and give me the best possible outcome I can achieve because I realize he gets it. He gets it. He's not trying to sell me anything. And that ironically is more appealing to patients than being told what they want to hear.

[00:53:46]>> Yes. Yeah. uh you know I tell pat patients that you have your own story you know your own life I am your guide I'm not the hero of the story the story the hero is you >> you know what I mean and if I have that attitude I think in marketing uh so many times the clinic or the doctor is the hero you know what I mean they've got they're showing their device and this and that um but my my tactic is a little bit different in that um I'm I'm really your guide, you know what I mean? And uh I want to make you the hero of the story at the end. You know, that's like the how the best movies play out.

[00:54:24]>> Yeah. Use me or don't use me, that's your decision.

[00:54:27]>> Yes.

[00:54:28]>> Not like you've got to use me because I'm the best.

[00:54:30]>> Yes.

[00:54:31]>> That that that common sense just straight away puts that barrier up. Or if it doesn't, if people don't see through that, if anybody tells you you've got to come to me cuz I'm the best, >> I would run.

[00:54:42]>> Yeah. But doc, what would you advise anybody that's out there that's now kind of researching hair transplants, researching hair restoration? There's so much information available to us now via all our devices.

[00:55:00]You know, before you know it, you're doom scrolling and you've seen our clinic. What advice would you give?

[00:55:05]Because there's so many different resources. There's so many fantastic resources and this is why I've tried to really like have a voice. I've been very fortunate to have a voice in the mainstream media like coming on your podcasts previously. I I I I I work with different publications and blogs and and what I try to do is give people options and resources. I'm a big component of telling people about the IHRS, about different platforms, about other patient advocates because I'm not here to sing my own trumpet. I'm here to give people information to go out there and do their due diligence so they I I can then sleep well at night and go well I've provided them as much information as I can try to inform them that ah this is the way to go about it based on my experience again I'm not telling you where to go I'm not telling you that all the surgeons that I kind of represent and work with such are all the best of the best that is for you to decide what I'm trying to do is give patients a fighting chance of streamlining the information at least into a succinct way that they can go about this as safely as possible. What What would your advice be? Because you look at you come at it from a different perspective. I'm coming at it from a patient patient advocacy perspective.

[00:56:21]>> You're coming at it from a doctor perspective, but this is where we I feel strongly we align because you really truly respect and get what I do and I truly respect and get what you do and that's why we've been an association.

[00:56:37]Well, I think first of all, it it starts with you. Um, it it's often easy looking at yourself in the mirror and just beating yourself up. You have to be nice to yourself. It it's it's a fundamental secret yourself.

[00:56:54]>> That's that yeah, that successful people have. I mean, they have >> um a psychology that they've adapted where they're good to themselves. They don't beat themselves up. So, that's number one.

[00:57:06]Number two, I think um you need to go into this and prioritize what your needs are. Um you know, is it to get it one and done and just you know, knock it out, >> get past this as quick as possible? Is it a is it a financial situation where you may have to u you know look at um kind of lower level clinics just to get it done but do that with a lot of trepidation because I'll tell you it costs a lot of money to get it fixed.

[00:57:36]>> Yeah. You pay for what you get.

[00:57:37]>> Yes. Exactly.

[00:57:38]>> And hair restoration >> and it can be done in a very unsafe and put you at jeopardy. So um the next thing is going to be uh the psychology of concealment. Um, and again, that's that's what I have been doing since 2013. What the practice has been doing.

[00:57:55]If you want to be concealed, you look for physicians that do shaveless procedures or long hair procedures are not are not all a lot. They're not a lot of them. Uh, you need to find offices that have doctors that are actually doing the case. uh that um are associated associated with the ISHRS which is the International Society of Hair Restoration Surgeons uh that uh have board certification through the American Board of the International Board of Hair Restoration Surgeons.

[00:58:29]These types of associations and especially kind of uh certification through the through the board make things more bonafideed. Now I have to get reertified for the board this year.

[00:58:42]It's been 10 years. So I'm actually studying right now learning, you know, ISHRS.

[00:58:48]>> That's for the ABHRS.

[00:58:50]>> Begart. Yes.

[00:58:51]>> Yeah. The ISSHRS is more the research, you know, kind of community arm >> because I think it's important we discuss these different associations or organizations rather because anybody can apply to the ISHRS and become a member, can't they? Yes. But tell us a little bit more about the governing bodies that you're associated with and why.

[00:59:12]>> U so the American Board of Hair Restoration Surgery um is um and and it's also international the whole body is less than 500 physicians in the entire world and it is not easy to get. Um you need to do a minimum of I think three or 400 cases.

[00:59:35]Um you have to have everything documented. You have to be able to to supply all these cases for for review.

[00:59:42]Uh you have to do or oral and written boards have um you know proper training.

[00:59:47]So there certain number of continuing medical education hours that you have to do and uh it it was a long course. I mean it it took years for me to be able to actually sit for the tests. The tests were not easy. I studied actually for six months, you know, before and um both the oral had the written and then an oral test in front of, you know, some of the top guys.

[01:00:12]>> Interesting.

[01:00:13]>> Yeah. In the um you know, in the hair restoration world. Um you know, I'm part of the uh AHRS, the International Alliance of Hair Restoration Surgeons.

[01:00:26]And I would say that that uh group of physicians, if you look at the list, these are the the real leaders. They're the ones that are presenting at conferences, uh doing research, you know, doing >> I've been a big uh kind of uh you know, component of of getting that organization out there for people to be made aware of. It's one I believe in uh you know I believe in Spencer Cobran's message you know surgery is a last resort and the IHRS and the American Halos Association are big components of what I've always promoted because I think it's really important that people understand the difference between what all these different organizations are about and uh there certainly two that I've been strongly promoting in in the mainstream media a number of years.

[01:01:16]>> I mean you could take any scenario in medicine. Um, let's say you were getting your ACL repaired, would you want a board-certified orthopedist doing your procedure? Absolutely. Uh, if you were getting heart surgery, absolutely. You'd want somebody who had all the accreditation. You would want the best.

[01:01:36]>> And in hair restoration, we are permanently changing your appearance for good or for worse. And you can't go into this, you know, willy-nilly >> without, you know, picking people that are bonafideed people, people people that are part of the ABHRS, >> stress tested.

[01:01:54]>> Yes. And you can go to abhrs.org.

[01:01:58]You can go to ahrs.org.

[01:02:00]I mean, those lists right there are bonafideed physicians. They've been through uh >> That's a great starting point.

[01:02:09]>> Absolutely. for anyone looking at hair restoration to do the heavy lifting in terms of streamlining and expediting that initial research process. But just on that point, Doc, it's always an analogy I use and I have done uh before on live radio to try and help the listeners understand when people are researching hair transplants, they of we've heard the stories, oh I found I found a clinic on Instagram because it had a million followers and it had so many likes. And my retort to that was, well, if you're going for a heart transplant, would you go to a clinic that's just got a a million followers on Instagram?

[01:02:48]>> Yeah.

[01:02:50]>> Cuz the comparison is very much like that. You would not choose a heart transplant surgeon based on their Instagram profile. you would want to scratch the surface >> and understand something as important and and hair restoration is as is an organ. You're moving it much like a heart.

[01:03:11]>> So, you'd want to make sure that the person that's doing that surgery was legitimate, stress tested, had all the accreditation, was affiliated with all the relevant organizations, had good >> and not just had a really good attractive Instagram page, >> had good reviews. Yeah. You know, >> yeah, >> you know, it's funny. I um had a patient that I did a consult uh last week and and we've got you know I think 300 fivestar reviews plus um we have very few low reviews. Um >> and no doctor backs a thousand.

[01:03:46]>> No, >> you know what I mean? I think it's important everybody knows >> we can't jive with everybody. You know what I mean?

[01:03:50]>> You can't. And remember one thing I've witnessed and I've been in the trenches for 20 years. I've been in the forums.

[01:03:57]That's where I my stripes, you know, that's why specs, the pseudonym specs was formed because >> I didn't want anybody to know I had a hairdress. So that's what I set up your username.

[01:04:06]>> But but the point is it's like >> there are so many doctors out there that claim, you know, they're the best and and you know, their success rates and but no doctor has bat a thousand, as you say, in the States that you're Yeah. And what I mean by that is, but also let's put that in context because those patients that possibly do go online and aren't satisfied and aren't happy and drag doctor's names through the mud, good names, good doctor's name.

[01:04:35]>> What they tend to leave out conveniently is the fact that they've had several procedures. They're a repair patient.

[01:04:41]They had limited donor supply. They've been effed up before elsewhere. But who's going to who's going to be thrown under the bus? The last surgeon that performed the surgery. And I think it's important that people know that take everything with a pinch of salt when you're researching and you see bad reviews about surgeons because if they are a part of Specs Hair, the IHRS, the American Hair Loss Association organizations you've just discussed there, the chances are that they are good, ethical, honorable, honest surgeons that only want to do right by the patient.

[01:05:14]>> Yeah. Funny thing about this story with the patient I was talking to. Uh he said, "My wife has a one problem with you. She went through all the reviews."

[01:05:23]>> His wife had the problem.

[01:05:25]>> Yeah. You have too many good reviews.

[01:05:27]There aren't enough bad reviews. It goes from five and then the a couple one star. They weren't even >> high maintenance.

[01:05:35]>> But but but it you know, it was funny because uh he's like, "Are these reviews real?" And I'm like, "Absolutely.

[01:05:42]absolutely real but >> you can't do right if you're doing wrong doc >> yeah but uh I think you need to look at reviews um >> with a jaw to eye >> yes with a jaigh but there needs to be a pattern >> and there needs to be a story that's told by these patients um of an empathetic and as you have here uh educating elevating you know doctor >> empowering with a great culture in their office from experience legit legitimizing that experience. It's not cultivated in the sense that manufactured.

[01:06:17]>> And this is something that I find a lot of people now are manufacturing authenticity, which is a worry. Yeah.

[01:06:23]Like rather than it being it's been it's been earned, it's it's it's it's legitimate. People now are actually manufacturing >> what is perceived to be >> authority. Yeah.

[01:06:37]>> And that's a worry. Now, that's in every business. That's in every industry, >> but in hair restoration, it's a worry.

[01:06:44]>> It is. Yeah. I mean, the good thing is, um, I'm not physically capable of treating every hair restoration patient, nor would I ever want to. Um, but the way I approach things is again that foundation that I have from rehab, the foundation, my father, I spent a lot of time with him. He was the best. What's >> his background?

[01:07:06]>> Orthopedic surgeon.

[01:07:07]>> Oh, was he an orthopedic begg?

[01:07:09]>> Yeah. And uh he was literally the best.

[01:07:11]>> It's in your DNA.

[01:07:12]>> Yeah. He was the best um physician that I ever worked with. Unfortunately, he passed away a few years ago, but he gave so much wisdom and the way he treated his his staff, they all came up to me and said, "For your dad, I would do absolutely anything for, but the other physicians, no."

[01:07:31]>> Right? And so but the way he treated patients, the way he treated his staff, uh the way he um came as you know in orthopedics you have fractures and things are devast everything was positive you know what I mean and it was he always talked about there is a mindset when you walk into that room and he also loved humor and I asked him why do you tell so many jokes or or you know make people laugh so much he said I don't do it you know to actually make people laugh. But the world is a tough place and we all need to cool it. You know what I mean? We all need to uh >> to to uh to settle down. So >> we can approach this one of two ways.

[01:08:14]Positively or negatively. Exactly.

[01:08:15]>> Sounds like Patch Adams.

[01:08:17]>> Yeah.

[01:08:17]>> Remember that movie?

[01:08:18]>> Yes.

[01:08:19]>> That's based on you know that surgeon's bedside manner and the way that he approached that in terms of the psychology of medicine.

[01:08:26]>> Yeah.

[01:08:27]>> Is a powerful tool.

[01:08:29]>> Yes. And that's a really good point that you know you can either go about this kind of very matterof factly or you can really embrace that patient and one thing I I know is a factor of you being that patient being a hair loss you know patient and a hair transplant patient yourself you have an empathy towards everybody that walks through that door much like I do because I know what they're going through.

[01:08:48]>> Yeah.

[01:08:49]>> And that that that's where that legitimacy comes through. That's where that experience comes through.

[01:08:54]Absolutely. Can't be replicated.

[01:08:56]>> Yeah. Well, think of the gift that I have for spending, you know, all day with a patient, you know, frequently for large cases. Now, most doctors come in with an iPad, they're they're typing as they poke at you. Does it hurt right there?

[01:09:11]>> You know, my father was you come into the room, you shake hands, and you instantly start examining people.

[01:09:18]Patients want to be touched and you can talk and examine and distract and do things. If you're if there's a shoulder and and you're touching somebody, most doctors are even scared. They literally poke with their finger. It hurts right there. Okay, we'll get you set up for surgery. It's a terrible way to approach people. But for me, I learned so much from my patients. Um, I've had so many great conversations with folks um that have either great ideas or a lot of the patients you just, you know, you're waiting for things to percolate. And I've been surprised so many times, you know, just at how dynamic people are. And for me, it's just such an honor to be part of having an impact throughout the day, non-sedated, having a great experience. and you know um doing a followup and and just going through the journey.

[01:10:13]>> And remember what's important as well for as a hair loss sufferer and a hair transplant patient. It's you're seeing these people that are coming through your door >> at their lowest.

[01:10:26]>> Yes.

[01:10:27]>> They're coming to you at their lowest.

[01:10:29]Whether that's kind of and it's all relative to that individual, whether it's, you know, some people are like in a really bad way. I mean, I've dealt with people that are on kind of like even wanted to end their life as a result of it because it's consumed them.

[01:10:43]They've become >> too obsessed by it. It's become too much for them to bear. And >> I know for a fact, I can only imagine how many of patients of those patients that you've seen. So that's why this this experience, this bedside manner, and this this identifying that without >> identifying, you can see you can read the room. Yeah.

[01:11:06]>> And your ability and this is a real skill that very few surgeons in hair restoration possess is this is this humility to be able to connect with patients and the patients that I've spoken with that have been to you and they've said if I've heard it once, I've heard it a hundred times. It's like I was just at ease as soon as I went there because he was just kind of he understood exactly where I was coming from. And that is a really powerful tool in your toolbox as a hair restoration surgeon. Yeah, you know, I think it's just uh kind of a foundation, you know, and you know, I think my mentality um you know, is not pervasive, unfortunately. You know, there different personalities. I've always had kind of a a low-key personality, but I'm not a pushover and I know exactly what needs to be done. I'm meticulous with a high level of OCD. And when I tell people that, you know what I mean, and and kind of put it all together, I think that's why we have great outcomes.

[01:12:08]We've got great patients. I've got really good reviews. And I have a staff that has been with me, and they we, you know, at times battling out with really tough cases, but they're always motivated. They always come back the next day with a smile. They each give me a hug every morning and I give them a hug every >> every time I leave because they love working here and you know it just um I don't know I think >> there a lot of cultures in offices that can be toxic you know what I mean and in 26 years of practice >> I've heard I've heard all the stories from various different clinics >> you can have one individual that is you know can rot the barrel >> exactly and not the B.

[01:12:53]>> Yeah. So, luckily I I've, you know, being 26 years of of practice, I I've gained wisdom as far as what I want and I'm not scared to say this is not a fit and and I wish you the best. You know what I mean? Um, and but what I the team that I have now is just amazing.

[01:13:10]>> Well, it's interesting you mentioned that. I and I mean this respectfully.

[01:13:14]You you you can't not have OCD considering the insane attention to detail that this facility has. I I I said I think I need to put on the back of the t-shirt that I've given you dark horse because you are incredibly like you are incredibly humble but >> just witnessing this with my own eyes.

[01:13:36]It's like but you don't shout about it >> and people need to see this and I'm looking forward to doing a bit of a video walk through with you to make people actually aware of this gem of a facility. I mean, I mean that legitimately. You saw you genuinely witnessed my like like how I expressed myself when I walked in here. I just couldn't I my eyes didn't blink. I was like, "Holy this is insane." Like I think a lot of clinics could take this gold. No kidding.

[01:14:09]>> Oh, well listen Doc, it's been an absolute pleasure. I mean, thank you so much for having me here >> in your podcast to help me present my podcast to the world >> and I can assure you I look forward to doing this again.

[01:14:26]>> Uh, you know, my family and I flew in to Atlanta yesterday.

[01:14:30]>> Yes.

[01:14:30]>> Um, I'm off to Arkansas because my daughter's going to look around a university, which is the main purpose of this visit for me. And I thought I can't not on this mission in here flying into Atlanta not come and see the great Daniel. So, you know, thank you so much.

[01:14:48]Thank you for being soospitable. And I just want to go on record how we were messaging before to try and schedule this meeting. And the doc was like, well, what time are you landing? Let me come and pick you up. You know, I was like, doc, it's fine. I can get a cab.

[01:15:02]But that again is a reflection on you to want to kind of help me out like and I really really respect that and I want to say thank you very much for having me and looking after me so well.

[01:15:12]>> Yeah. Well, I appreciate you coming.

[01:15:14]Really >> awesome.

[01:15:16]>> It's a total honor. So, >> so what do you think of the studio here?

[01:15:19]>> I think it's just incredible. I mean, this studio has without a doubt inspired me kind of the the whole objective of the hair loss lab is to provide a platform for people to gain information.

[01:15:32]That's all it is. It's just another arm, another way to relay information and looking around here, which I can't wait to take some footage of if if you you'll allow me. And I think I'm going to have to come to you for some advice on >> because I have the means to be able to set something like this up. But what I want to do with the hair loss lab is not necessarily like do the traditional podcast sit down, which is fantastic.

[01:15:56]Yeah. I want to like relay information to people, tell stories to people, give people a variety of ways of getting educated. Yes. Now whether I am fortunate to be able to travel around I if I you know I think what you're going to do here >> I know what we are going to do >> is make a lot of people aware of of how people information and relay information. I think you're going to set the bar here. I think you're going to set the precedent. I think a lot of clinics are going to start performing podcasts because it's well within people's means but >> people have to have the wonder desire to help people to the time and energy which meanwhile I don't know how you find the time to do what you everything that you do I take my hat off to you before we even started the show you were showing me a repertoire of your music that you've what not only made produced like sung on and you're the the the the the the only person playing the guitar in it. It's like unbeliev I'm gonna buy your album. Hopefully, you can give me your album. But I think the point here is this studio has inspired me on my mission to pay it forward even more. And again, that attention to detail that you have gone to from the moment you open the front door to every single component like I'm going to go to the L and it'll probably wash my own bag side for me.

[01:17:26]>> We're working on it.

[01:17:28]>> Yeah.