Securing wealth and protecting your family's future.

追加: 2026-06-10

[00:00:00]Whilst there is someone on the other end of that line, there's somebody in the studio today as well who will then be able to tell us what this person on the other end of the line will tell you as well. Yes.

[00:00:08]>> Uh Dennis Moria is the general manager business development Britam life assurance and joins us in the hot seat of the situation room this morning. Good morning.

[00:00:16]>> Good morning. Thank you.

[00:00:17]>> How are you?

[00:00:18]>> You join another dentist. So I guess we're in good company.

[00:00:23]Uh so of course we're going to be talking about a lot of this stuff cuz we don't like to talk about death >> but still necessary for us to do because you know it's going to happen. They say the one sure thing about life is death and uh through that you can make it a little bit more comfortable can't we?

[00:00:39]>> The other Dennis also takes us to a different African country every week.

[00:00:42]>> He comes back with their proverbs and chocolates. I get the chocolates. You get to interpret the proverb.

[00:00:49]>> Okay. And it so happens today we are in a land that produces cocoa >> but not chocolates. We are in Ghana.

[00:00:57]Beautiful country. And when you talk about Ghana you remember Krum made his vision for the continent where they said we are the first country in the continent to gain independence. But that will never make sense if that does not translate to the rest of the continent.

[00:01:10]And you look at where the continent is today. Talk about African Union and working together. Perhaps that ideology is being recognized a day at a time. But let's go to the proverb now. The stranger does not know where the village elder was buried. The stranger does not know where the village elder was buried.

[00:01:28]What do you think Ghanaians are telling us today?

[00:01:31]>> The stranger does not know where the village elder is buried.

[00:01:35]>> Yes.

[00:01:36]>> Well, uh my interpretation of that uh proverb, let me take you to the context of our conversation today.

[00:01:43]um you uh as as a key member of your family and the provider of your family.

[00:01:50]>> You're the only one who knows what your family needs. You're the one who understands the family values that you want to impact on them and you're got the vision and the plan for them. So only you who belongs to that homestead can plan for that eventuality.

[00:02:07]>> Well done.

[00:02:08]>> Okay, message. We know why you work for them.

[00:02:11]>> We now know why you're there.

[00:02:14]60 years now, but now we know why. Yes.

[00:02:17]>> Okay. So then let's get into that conversation, shall we? Some of the things that sometimes we get uncomfortable talking about, but then um it's part of life, right? Uh so tell us, let's start from the beginning when we talk about the whole life plan. What >> what exactly are we getting into?

[00:02:33]>> All right. Okay. Thank you. So um the the Britam whole life plan or whole life insurance in general is um life insurance protection for your family and your dependent.

[00:02:45]>> So I think that's one of the key differences of life insurance compared to let's say for example if you're investing in a money market fund or something where you investing for yourself or retirement planning for yourself. Now this one you're making sure that your people in the unfortunate event of you passing on maybe early on at a younger age >> um you able to provide for them. So what are the things we're talking about providing you know we have daily living expenses you know rent must be paid food must be bought children must go to school um and you know also the little things that people enjoy about life holidays must continue. So what you do is you buy a coverage amount uh life cover. So let's say 5 million or to 100 million.

[00:03:29]>> Mhm.

[00:03:30]>> And probably I could add how do you determine how much better is my life worth?

[00:03:35]>> All right.

[00:03:36]>> So usually a rule of thumb we say look at around 4 to 8 years of your annual salary is a good amount to think about how much you need to cover.

[00:03:45]>> 4 to 8 years.

[00:03:47]>> Yes. Depending on your ability to pay.

[00:03:51]>> Yeah. So think about that range. That's a good number to think about. So if that 4 to 8 years ends up to let's say like 20 million then that's the good amount you should buy so that in case you pass on then your family is paid out that 20 million and they can be able to appropriately manage that money over the long term to make sure they have the cost they have money for uh their daily living expenses.

[00:04:15]>> So whole life one of the unique differences compared to other things we call like term life assurance is it does not expire.

[00:04:23]>> Mhm. So pay for a a certain period of time. You can pay one off if you want.

[00:04:29]>> Um and uh and then you can also pay for 10 years, 15 years or 20 years. Then you stop the payments. Then you uncover for the rest of your life.

[00:04:37]>> That way even if you live to 100 then you your children or your grandchildren have money >> to help them take off from a certain point. You know things these days are quite expensive. So even think about owning a home. So you can set up your children for that for example, isn't it?

[00:04:54]>> Yes. Yeah. So you know we live in a very interesting um demography as Africans.

[00:04:59]Yeah. So we're here we've been told whole life um plan is great for you because it is helping the generations to come. You've set them up for prosperity pretty much. You know I told I household I did the grind but I'm here making sure that you know my future is secured.

[00:05:16]ecoete but we also find a demography that doesn't want to talk about life insurance they just don't want to pick it up because like said we don't want to talk about death why is that the case uh I think that's one of probably the I would say there are many things that um we have that um within our society that impact why the life insurance uptake is low in Kenya >> and that is part of our culture we afraid to talk about death and openly and plan for it. Um and uh because it's been a taboo uh but I can see probably we're making strides in terms of thinking about how can we be able to have that conversation openly uh especially when we see uh those who've who've gone especially you've got very prominent families and you can see how their children fight over their >> their parents' property. So I think the question is do you want our children to be friends and work together after we part or do you want them to be enemies?

[00:06:22]So I think that's one of the things about maybe we need to incalculate maybe our values today and say how do I make sure that if I go and or when I go that my family is at peace and everyone is happy with what they get.

[00:06:36]>> Yes.

[00:06:37]>> Okay. So let's take a couple steps back.

[00:06:39]So now understanding what the whole life plan is, understanding why maybe people are worried talking about it. What do you do at Britain?

[00:06:49]>> Myself as Dennis.

[00:06:50]>> Well, as Dennis and the As Dennis Moria >> as Dennis.

[00:06:54]>> Okay. Yeah, we got to clarify that.

[00:06:56]>> As Dennis Moria. All right. Um, so u bit of an introduction. So Dennis Moria. So I am the general manager for business development. So oversee uh basically the sales and distribution revenue growth for Britam life >> for the life insurance and pensions business. So we've got many solutions across the board even outside our life insurance business. Uh so within the life insurance business we've got pensions and retirement savings. So we can have a conversation about that. We can have about education planning uh savings for other goals um that you may think about let's say buying a car, a house or any other >> area of interest that you may have. And then of course we have life insurance here we're talking about today. Whole life being one of the products and we've got um what do you call it other term life products as well.

[00:07:44]>> Okay. But also you have got other financial solutions like money market funds right >> uh insuring your vehicle insure your home. If you do travel we do offer also travel insurance as well. So any types of insurance that you can think of >> there we we have them available. So even if you have a plane >> we got you. Dennis has a plan. So >> when you imagine these different sectors that you know the insurance then is is able to offer in Kenya what's the uptake of insurance um at the moment and is it encouraging or discouraging?

[00:08:20]>> Oh the the numbers um when you look at them at a global level they're quite discouraging. Penetration overall I think is way less than 3% for both what you call property and life insurance >> that uh combined. Mhm.

[00:08:33]>> Um >> of the Kenyan population >> of the Kenyan percent of GDP. Yes. Yes.

[00:08:38]So the amount of money we spend on premium versus the annual income uh for the national for for the entire country.

[00:08:46]>> Yes. So uh it is not encouraging but we're far better than a few other countries. We're not the worst. Okay.

[00:08:53]>> Uh but the other countries which are doing far much better especially in Africa. Of course South Africa usually is the leading country around there. Uh but Kenya is not too far but we still have a long way to go. uh in terms of making sure that we do able to provide financial security for ourselves.

[00:09:08]>> Yes.

[00:09:09]>> Why do you think that is? Sorry, Dennis.

[00:09:11]>> Apart from the whole life plan, people don't want to talk about death, >> but why do you think it is that folks are not thinking about taking and putting away something for later?

[00:09:22]>> So, um one um let me put it um four key things that I would say that are the the major one is around affordability.

[00:09:32]Um so when it comes to prioritizing the wallet for the average Kenyan of course you've got food and now the popular topic of fuel and other things. Um though affordability has been an issue despite this year even previous years it's been an issue. So that's one of the main areas around that.

[00:09:52]>> The next one is around um trust.

[00:09:55]>> So are you sure we will pay this money that we promised?

[00:10:00]Okay, I think that that is a that's a that's a big thing that we do need to work on either from also an awareness perspective and also from ourselves as in industry to provide that comfort and we also able to demonstrate that we do pay. So usually it's best that it is best to be referred to an underwriter or provider who does make sure that they are paid.

[00:10:20]>> All right.

[00:10:21]>> Um >> the other one is um let me call it general awareness about what are the benefits. Mhm.

[00:10:29]>> of life insurance and or any type of insurance >> and um I think we're we're very well informed about banking uh what do you call about it um investments those ones uh I think the Kenyan population is doing a good job or we are ahead in that but risk management protecting what I have is is is is becomes a difficult conversation um but we we do need to work on the on the awareness in that area. So I think in the long term there's an opportunity to make sure that we do align uh all these different gaps that we do have. So making sure that there's good information, we address the trust issue. Um and and and also as an industry work on affordable, relatable products >> that the average Kenyan can buy and that's why we are here today.

[00:11:18]>> So let's talk about um different types of insurance um to just lay the case.

[00:11:24]Anybody today would talk about um I want health insurance because I fall sick quite often you know sickness is there so I want that >> yes >> packaged I'm driving a motor car or my bike right I can't be on the road because NTSA on my neck I must have that insurance >> but when it comes to life insurance and talking about then legacy that is a gray area where many say hey what are you saying you know what exactly are you saying For those of us who do not understand how critical it is in terms of legacy planning and the need to have life insurance, why is it important then to switch uh and start saying as much as you have health insurance which is great and you have vehicle uh motor vehicle insurance, it's important for you to plan about your legacy and the future through the life plan.

[00:12:17]>> Um no, and I and I do agree with you. Um and I would say it's it's bring the the focus back to you and probably accepting well I am a motor >> and there are these people that I love and cherish very much and the are the people who have been working to make sure that they have good health insurance.

[00:12:37]>> They're the people where I bought that big car so they can be driven wherever they need to go.

[00:12:43]>> Comprehensive cover.

[00:12:44]>> Yes. Comprehensive cover. uh when they go to hospital the best wing is in the hospital >> but if you're not there you know uh your month maybe you your savings will take them for 3 months >> what about after 3 months they'll be a rabe for the funeral after that people will be gone so yes what will your spouse do what will your children do maybe even their parents and other brothers and sisters who depend on you what will they do >> yes So it is important to make sure that you do have that um life cover in place >> and we also have other products which complement it such that in case you're not too sure or you're not confident they're able to manage the money.

[00:13:30]>> Uh we do have uh what we call trust services as well. So the money can be paid into a trust and the trustees now pay for the daily living expenses. So your job is just to that your beneficiary just comes and brings the school fees. Let's say you've got a brother, maybe your choice doesn't take care of money very well, you know, might go and enjoy it. So, all they need to do just be bringing an invoice for school fees and they'll sort out your child.

[00:13:54]>> Uh bring the invoice for rent and the trust will pay out for uh the rent. If it's about shopping, they'll give an allowance and say, "Fine, bring me receipts >> in your back." That way, >> you're sure that your child will be well taken care of. Then your child turns over let's say 21 25 depending what you decide they get the balance of the funds to go and manage and leave their life.

[00:14:16]>> How do you start the legacy planning conversation whereby a trust would come into part of that for the future but where do you start from if you've never saved a dime in your life and you're realizing okay snap something could happen later. How do you start the conversation? Where do you begin? What do you put away 500 shillings 5,000?

[00:14:33]What do you do?

[00:14:35]>> Okay. Um let me say if I should take the legacy planning discussion to a bigger picture even beyond the whole life and the trust >> um I would say uh many families in Kenya are already in the process of building wealth.

[00:14:50]>> Okay.

[00:14:50]>> Okay.

[00:14:51]>> Mhm.

[00:14:52]>> Uh you either have got your plot somewhere, you have your savings or investment somewhere, uh you've got your vehicle. Okay. Those are assets which are of significant value. Okay. So you could start from the basics of uh let me put down a list of everything that I do own and have a will prepared.

[00:15:12]>> Okay. Over and above that you're very clear about what needs to be done.

[00:15:16]>> Okay. Then the question is is what I have enough >> to take care of the family.

[00:15:23]>> Okay. Then I said they gave an estimate of how much you should be thinking of making sure you can protect them. 4 to 8 years >> of salary. Depends on your age. The older you are then the fewer the years.

[00:15:35]The younger that you are the more you need to set aside. Yeah. So those details we can come and have a one-on-one discussion with Britam or any other provider and a financial advisor as well.

[00:15:47]>> Um then you can start saving up and even here at Britam you can start saving with as low as for whole life product for three 3,000 shillings per month.

[00:15:56]>> Yes. To get million of 5 million a couple of 5 million shillings >> over how long? uh 10 years you pay for 10 years. So if you do 5 million times 120 that comes to >> approximately 600,000 or so >> per total payments.

[00:16:14]>> Oh you would pay a total of 600,000 and you would have a cover for 5 million.

[00:16:18]>> Okay. So let's do some >> Yes.

[00:16:20]>> So you pay 3,000 shillings. This is just as an example. If you wanted to do something uh to get 5 million Bob, you pay 3,000 shillings a month for 10 years. At the end of 10 years, 5 million shillings is given to whom? If you're still alive, no, you get the 5 million shillings growing at 3%. It'll come when you pass.

[00:16:41]>> When you die.

[00:16:42]>> When you die, not at the end of 10 years. You stop making the 5,000 shillings payment >> at the end of the 10 years.

[00:16:49]>> 10 years. But now you've planned for your family in the eventuality you're not around. But if you're still alive, you're still working, you're still making money, you can still provide for them.

[00:17:01]>> So what happens to that money?

[00:17:03]>> It has to wait until you pass on.

[00:17:06]>> Until you pass on.

[00:17:07]>> Okay. So do say that again because I'm sure that flew over the head of a lot of people here.

[00:17:10]>> All right.

[00:17:11]>> You paying 3,000 shillings per month >> for 10 years. for 10 years and what you are for a payout of 5 million shillings when you pass on.

[00:17:22]>> Yes.

[00:17:23]>> And so because this is what is growing at 3%.

[00:17:26]>> Yes.

[00:17:26]>> So if you don't pass on, where is that money?

[00:17:30]>> No, you will pass on.

[00:17:31]>> No, no, no, no. At the end of 10 years, you've not passed on.

[00:17:34]>> Oh, no. No. We keep the money as Britain. Yes.

[00:17:37]>> So that's why we we build what you call our reserves. All right. And we pay out on any death at any point in the year.

[00:17:44]Yes.

[00:17:44]>> Okay. So obviously your people must know that there's such an agreement here so that in the event that something happens to you somebody can then go say hi Britam this has unfortunately happened how can we start getting into this right yes cuz you would have left instructions >> yes yes you should leave instructions yes I think that's why I started off from like a will and any other documentation so your policy document should be one of those things >> one of those things yes >> okay now what are some of the factors then that have to be uh considered for you to start. Do I just say, "Well, I can put aside 5,000, I can put aside 10,000 and we can just go for it, or are there other things that you have to look into?"

[00:18:25]>> Uh, as an individual when you're coming to to buy it, um, I would say first look at how much you can be able to afford.

[00:18:32]That's a good starting point. But also think about how much coverage you do need.

[00:18:37]>> I gave the ratio of 4 to 8 years. And in my view, you can be able to even if you can't make it let's say to the 8 years and you need to and let's say you plant for say 30 million shillings but the premium I have can only buy maybe 10 million. Start with a 10 million.

[00:18:51]>> It'll be growing by 3%.

[00:18:53]>> Uh maybe your income in circumstances will improve within the next 3 5 years.

[00:18:58]You can buy the additional >> 20 million at that point.

[00:19:02]>> Yes. So the maximum age with which you can buy a whole life cover is by the time you're 65.

[00:19:10]>> Yes.

[00:19:11]>> Yeah.

[00:19:12]>> And I mean I think for for a very long time insurance as well um unfortunately how many have looked at it is it is for the older generation. You know the way people look at it it is it is them who need it. You know it is them because they're the ones who get sick and all that. But here then we're being told when you talk about um whole life plan the younger you are and the earlier you start the more affordable it is for you um because then you will pay less for a very long period of time as opposed to when you're getting in there um at an advanced age you pay more and even the benefits might just be less as compared to a person who's getting there. So one then asks the question talk to us on the need of starting early and the benefits you get for doing that.

[00:20:01]>> Okay. All right. Good. Now I think you you you've covered it very well. Um for for insurance types which depend on your health like life insurance and health insurance >> they are younger you are the cheaper your premiums are.

[00:20:16]>> For the simple reason uh not even because you'll pay for a shorter period.

[00:20:20]It is because uh youth confers you the benefits of uh long life and you've you're quite fit.

[00:20:29]>> Yeah.

[00:20:29]>> Yes. So the likelihood of you passing on besides an accident uh due to poor health are very low.

[00:20:36]>> Okay. So the likelihood of you passing out passing away because of poor health is very low. So even when we as actuaries you look at the mortality graphs young people are down here as you grow older.

[00:20:46]>> Yeah.

[00:20:47]>> Uh things change significantly. So that is the main reason why and if you start young and you are saying only pay for 10 years. So the 20y old 30y old who pays for 10 years uh still needs is comparable to the premiums will be paid by a 50-year-old who needs to pay for 10 years are significant could be three three times the value of a whole life product.

[00:21:10]>> Yes. And even when you talk about that when you talk about the 3% um interest that that grows over time. So if you finish at say start at 20 by the time you're 30 the 3% will carry through the entire time.

[00:21:23]>> Ah yes in fact you realize the impact of compound interest at 3% is amazing. 3% sounds low but at >> 30 if it's 20 million. If you live to 80 it could end up being 100 million.

[00:21:37]>> H okay. What if somebody's terminally ill and they know that they take on a whole life plan?

[00:21:43]>> Oh okay. So um so if you're terminally ill um there we've got what we call additional optional benefits. Yeah. Uh and there we have critical illness and critical illness covers many types of terminal illnesses. So if you have cancer, stage three, stage four, you you're given a payout. Um if you need to go for a major organ transplant, >> uh for example, like kidneys or anything else, >> you is a payout or a stroke, >> there's a payout >> aside from your lump sum later kind of thing.

[00:22:20]>> Yes, it's in addition to so you can get the payout now. So it can help you deal with the costs of that particular terminal illness. Mhm.

[00:22:29]>> And a few years later on if you when you pass on, you still get the whole life benefit which goes to your family so that he can continue the legacy.

[00:22:38]>> I like the way Dennis is just sure that we are going to pass on >> and keep saying he will pass. Okay. I've forgotten that we don't like to talk about these things. You must make it comfortable.

[00:22:50]>> It's the truth, you know.

[00:22:52]>> Yeah. Because you know this takes us to our next conversation about affordability you know because let's just if if um affordability would be given a song would be narudi you know and when you talk about affordability of whole life plan at a time when cost of living is high and many do not afford that bring us to a conversation around affordability uh for those who want to get into it because many would say I'm looking at the premiums But Kogo affordability is a problem. So is is it affordable for middle inome earners for those who want to get into it and how does that conversation then start?

[00:23:33]>> Okay. Um I think the straight answer from my perspective is for middle income earners it is affordable. I would say it is let call it a trade-off. Mhm.

[00:23:42]>> So probably at a minimum you're spending you're even saving maybe let's say 10,000 shillings per month on let's say you're depositing it in a money market fund or in your savings account. So I'm not saying pluck 3,000 shillings for example and do for protection. You see now you'll get cover for 5 million. All right then you can be saving the other 7,000. Yes. So like we've been talking about when any person this see the 7,000s may not materialize to the equivalent of the 5 million.

[00:24:11]>> Okay.

[00:24:12]>> All right. So even if it's 10 years or 20 years from now the 7,000 even if you're earning 10 12%.

[00:24:20]May may not make it to the 5 million.

[00:24:22]>> Okay.

[00:24:22]>> Okay. So it is important to now think about what are the trade-offs you can make even within your current financial planning >> uh framework that you do have. So not necessarily eat into your money for food and fuel.

[00:24:34]>> Yes. Just rep prioritize.

[00:24:36]>> Okay. So does it matter the number of beneficiaries that you have or are some of those things taken in consideration to help you then realize or say this is how much and what the actuaries the the folks who are looking at the numbers and making the predictions and all of this.

[00:24:56]Do they say well this is what you need or is it completely based on what you're doing now because maybe some somebody's taking this and they've got one child today and then during that 10 year or however many of a year period of the term they have another child how do you then deal with the science or is it meant to take care of predictions with your current situation um thank you for that so um I think our general advice is uh usually start with your current situation and the good thing about our products is they are flexible and you can always top up. So like the scenario that you've given >> um for most people uh on average at least life progresses at least upwards maybe some very fast others but at least in a decent linear manner so earnings do improve over time and uh of course families do grow. So I would say you plan with the circumstances that you have today but always have an annual or every every two years review your financial situation >> and say uh is the initial plan I have working for me what has changed and do I need to change one or two things >> yes so continuous review of your financial plan is um is necessary you can't do it once and forget about it >> yes so um United States America H I'm doing my thing there. I own events too with Nindu back in Nairobi. And many ask the question as a summer bunny who's not here but I want to continue with the legacy. Where do I start from? How do I get to be on this despite the fact that I'm miles and miles away? Because many usually when I want to come back home I want come back to Kenya and rest you know because I told you out there but I know that I have something on the side.

[00:26:43]So how do that conversation stand with those who are outside?

[00:26:47]>> Oh the bees we live in 2026 and and and communication is fantastic and even our technology platforms are well available.

[00:26:58]>> So if they even the simple SMS to 21778 >> uh they can say where they are it doesn't matter as long as they are Kenyans they can be on cover immediately. So we have um electronic application processes, electronic payment modes.

[00:27:16]>> They can pay us with visa from >> uh the US.

[00:27:19]>> Okay.

[00:27:19]>> Yes. And um and and every Kenyan in the unfortunate event of even a death happening, they still can get a death certificate and claim their benefits from any part of the world. Okay.

[00:27:31]>> Yes.

[00:27:31]>> Yeah.

[00:27:32]>> Yeah. and u as I'm doing that as well.

[00:27:34]So there is the unfortunate aspect because life is also um progresses I am paying that um say it is 10,000 a month um unfortunately I lose my job you know so paying that 10,000 Bob becomes a little bit difficult as I look perhaps for another job or I become I become critically ill that my focus now shifts on me feeling well getting well or disabled. How does that conversation start so that I don't lose what it is I have and what happens if I'm unable to get back on the platform?

[00:28:07]>> Okay, so um the good for when you become ill or permanently disabled >> um what happens is the uh one of the benefits of the product is to make sure that >> you first compensated for that terminal illness or disability.

[00:28:24]>> Okay.

[00:28:24]>> Then we we wave future premiums for the the legacy planning portion. So you you you continue benefiting from that. So you're no longer compelled to make any payments. You're not required to make any payments.

[00:28:36]>> Yes. For when you have lost your job or any other issue that's not health related.

[00:28:43]>> Uh you've paid a certain proportion of your premiums, then you'll be entitled to a certain proportion of that legacy benefit. So if you pay 50% of the premiums, then you'll get 50% of the benefit. Okay?

[00:28:57]>> Okay. If circumstances change, you come talk to us and um we can begin a a discussion about payment over years and then you get back to the 100%.

[00:29:08]>> Yes.

[00:29:08]>> Okay.

[00:29:09]>> Okay.

[00:29:10]>> Um so with things that we cannot see it's difficult to then make a commitment to like you say it's going to come later and so then so that it's like people who you you take insurance for for health that you've not been sick. So you're like, okay, well, I'm not sick, so when I get sick, uh, is perhaps when I'll do something about it. What are the dangers of thinking like that?

[00:29:36]So, um, the main dangers, I would say, is um, so you're living one day at a time.

[00:29:44]>> So, you're exposing yourself to these unfortunate circumstances, things that you'll not be able to control.

[00:29:52]>> Okay. So let me say um legacy planning will give you for lack of a better word powers even from your grave to make sure the right things are happening.

[00:30:03]>> If you don't have that >> then you're leaving everything to >> uh what can I say it to good or bad luck and and to the fortunes of of the world and I would say this is not good for especially for parents of young ones.

[00:30:17]Now those are the ones who are very vulnerable and may not be able to >> um um defend themselves against certain other people taking advantage of them.

[00:30:27]So it's important that you you plan for them. That's why I say even this product is more important for the young >> than the old.

[00:30:35]>> All right. The the older the children have grown up and have got a few wits on how to survive.

[00:30:40]>> Yes. But when you've got young kids, uh um that would be very unfortunate to leave them to um the to the world to decide what to do.

[00:30:50]>> Yeah.

[00:30:51]>> Yes. So to me that will be it. So have a plan. That way your children do not suffer and everything that happens to them afterwards is very predictable and it's on the positive side. Otherwise everything you have done will go to waste.

[00:31:06]>> Yeah. Because you see um we hustle, we grind every day to make our lives um for your information me I'm ambassador for good life today and in the future. I keep telling at the time when I'm not here I don't want my ghost to struggle on how I on how on how the people have left will be leaving you know so this is an important conversation to have and um we also talk about >> the fact that transfer of wealth especially um in the country today we see what happens um in the wealthy families and how difficult it is to pass that from one generation to the other now here we have a plan based off which you you've talked about that secures was that future. So in the event that I'm gone, um is it open for me then to leave instructions on how I want that money to be spent on what exactly it will do?

[00:31:59]Because then again um failure to have that or to disclose to my family that I had this whole life plan on the side.

[00:32:07]How will they know about it? So what responsibility then or assurance will I get that in the event that I'm not there? you will take the responsibility to disclose and let my people know.

[00:32:20]>> Okay. Um so in terms of um so there are various ways you can have the payouts made >> to you.

[00:32:29]>> So one of the benefits for example of the whole life is that you name a beneficiary.

[00:32:34]>> Okay.

[00:32:35]>> So you'll say it is do getting the money and no one the percentage going to be 100%.

[00:32:42]>> Mhm. No one else but D will get the money.

[00:32:45]>> Okay.

[00:32:46]>> All right. D will D will just come with her documents to prove she's in D and she gets the money. No discussions about going to court if somebody's not happy straight to do.

[00:32:58]>> Yeah.

[00:32:58]>> So that's great when the beneficiary is an adult.

[00:33:01]>> Mhm.

[00:33:02]>> What we recommend is when for example it's a minor or a child then now we we complement it with a trust.

[00:33:09]Okay. So the money goes into the trust and that's why you set out specific instructions on what should be done for the child or the children. Okay?

[00:33:19]>> So you'll say I want this money to be paying for A B C D and nothing else >> and when they become a certain age 25 >> or whatever number you think is suitable or create uh another hurdle they must have graduated university and gotten a job.

[00:33:35]>> Important.

[00:33:36]>> Important. All right. Yes. And then they can unlock the money the full lumpsum.

[00:33:42]>> Yeah.

[00:33:43]>> Or the remaining lumpsum isn't it? And even during that in the trust we invest it and it earns a return.

[00:33:49]>> Okay. So that it beats inflation at the end of the day.

[00:33:53]>> So that's when you can be able to leave those instructions.

[00:33:55]>> So um what do you recommend? So once you take the cover uh what I believe in personally is being transparent with the beneficiaries and saying yes >> you are protected. This is what I've put aside and said for you and the records are here.

[00:34:10]>> Mhm.

[00:34:12]>> Be aware.

[00:34:12]>> Yeah.

[00:34:14]>> A lot of also one of the things that you mentioned at the beginning as to why not enough not a lot of people take on insurance in whatever shape or form is that they have trust issues. that how do you know that the money that you put aside whether it's 3,000 or 3 million is actually going to be kept used come to your people at the end of the term because guess what you're not there so you're not able to confirm right so how can we be sure how can people be sure that this money that they put aside whether it's for this whole life plan whether it's for the other things that you spoke about will actually come to you cuz you're taking a risk aren't you?

[00:34:54]>> Yes. So I would say yes there there are two risks you're taking on is on the provider side. So for example like Britam will Britam >> pay isn't it? I think that's probably the the biggest one.

[00:35:05]>> Yeah.

[00:35:06]>> So I would say what you do is do your homework around who the the providers are and confirm do they pay who are they paying today who have they paid the last 5 years.

[00:35:17]>> So like come to Britam and see our records of payments.

[00:35:21]>> Even come see our financial statements.

[00:35:23]you'll see most of the premiums that we get go to paying claims.

[00:35:27]>> Yes. And there are many testimonies around that.

[00:35:31]>> So um a good benchmark is probably what is the past practice and the people who've complained about not being paid why are they complaining and understand the circumstances >> and also we do give you um clear information around that. Also there's there are many consumer protection bodies around in the industry. So you can go to the IRA They're very vibrant and proactive. So if there are any complaints, you can go there and make sure that you are compensated.

[00:36:01]>> If an insurance company collapses, we do have um um the the insurance protection fund under the IRA. So which makes sure that we usually we pay like a premium to them also.

[00:36:14]>> So that now in the event of any underwriter collapsing then all policy holders are compensated.

[00:36:20]>> How are they compensated? by the police protection fund.

[00:36:23]>> No, no, no. I mean like is there going to be now a story or fairy tale later?

[00:36:28]Well, you know, the thing went down so we're going to give you 50% of what you paid in. That's what I mean. But how are you compensated in the event that something should go belly up?

[00:36:36]>> Uh and you've paid that premium to the IPF.

[00:36:38]>> Yes.

[00:36:39]>> How then are you are you giving back everything that you've put in?

[00:36:45]>> So it um so it depends. All right. On the insurance product.

[00:36:48]>> Okay. So, um, if it was one where you you're supposed to pay premiums continuously, >> um, until the end of the term, you'll continue being on cover >> up to the end of the term. Okay.

[00:36:59]>> All right. So, you're on cover for that.

[00:37:02]>> Um, if that's not possible, then they pay you, they make a pay out of what you've paid out before, then you can go and continue with another provider.

[00:37:10]>> So, it's usually a continuation of cover or a refund of premiums.

[00:37:15]>> Sometimes not 100% but a reasonable amount.

[00:37:18]>> Okay. And why would any insurance not pay claims? Because you said if you talked about a lot of a large percent of the claim payments you rather of the premiums that you receive are going towards claim payments and so you pay right and this is important to know Dennis cuz you you pay uh so under what circumstances would you not pay a claim?

[00:37:42]>> Okay. Um so we usually have the the contract which states uh what are you exactly covered for >> but let me talk about uh life insurance.

[00:37:51]Mhm.

[00:37:51]>> So usually these days there's not really much in terms of exclusions per se. Uh you'll even realize even things like suicide. Um >> um before we used to be very strict about those particular parameters but these days we we are not. So before like you'd be told >> if you committed suicide within 2 years there'd be no payment. So right now it would be probably a short period of a shorter period of time let's say like 6 months or 3 months. Okay. Um so that we make sure there's no moral hazard because others will not be a sustainable business um with with that kind of practice.

[00:38:24]>> Okay. So we recognizing such things. um these days exclusions for things like HIV, AIDS and stuff like that is no longer um uh a critical issue to deny a claim or even >> you cannot deny somebody who's HIV positive >> even to take up the policy.

[00:38:42]>> You can't deny them from taking a policy where previously you would.

[00:38:45]>> Yes. Yeah. So there at best maybe not be on cover for 100 million but a small amount maybe at most to 10 million or 20 million per say. Okay. So you'd be on cover for that and these days it's quite manageable especially with ARV. So um many are living long and fulfilling lives. So it's no longer the scare that used to be there let's say 20 30 years ago.

[00:39:09]>> Yeah. Yeah. So I want to look at most of the time whenever um Kenyans or whenever individuals are getting into these policies there is always the fear that um the policy document is >> too difficult to understand that men usually just sign on the dotted line you know because you look at the document and the legaliz language in there and you're like yo this one is meant for a senior council >> this one is meant for a senior council you know or or or an underwriter who understands the language But here then we are saying um for me to be there there has to be trust. I have to be sure of what as well I'm getting in it. What's the responsibility then that um if I'm taking a cover with Britam that everything will be disclosed I get to understand. So what responsibility do you take in ensuring that every customer every policy holder understands the document?

[00:40:05]>> Okay. Uh no thank you for that question.

[00:40:09]So um so we've got a well trained team of financial adviserss who uh do give the information and break it down to the individual at their level of understanding and even we work across Kenya so even in multiple languages that is broken down uh especially at the financial advisory level. Um we have our various disclosures that we do have especially with our product documentation brochures and um the which summarize the key benefits >> and and and that's even I'll say more important than the lengthy policy document. Yeah. Cuz usually in fact that is a standard we we commit to ourselves.

[00:40:48]So >> what you read in the brochure is what we will we will give you. All right. As Britain uh over and above that if you got more questions we've got a very robust customer service team. you can call and ask for for uh clarification on what you do need.

[00:41:05]>> Um and and then also we do what we call um what you call client education and awareness. So usually send out tidbits of communication around what your product is >> and how it performs as well. Um but I also like to provide comfort especially like on life insurance there's usually a lot of um exclusions these days you know um so we've got products of where if you don't go for medical underwriting you pay a little extra premium and there are no questions asked >> unless you're at the point of making a claim. Okay.

[00:41:39]>> And then if you go for medical examination >> even better we have no reason >> because now we know everything.

[00:41:47]>> Yep. But let's on medical um um investigations um say we we are two um interested customers right I have gone for my medical examination today as opposed to another individual who has not does that then um have any differences on the policy what does that mean on the overall uptake of the same are there any caveats on that >> uh yeah um yes we've we've kept it quite Simple. Yeah.

[00:42:17]>> Okay.

[00:42:18]>> So, the only difference will be in terms of the premium that you pay. Everything else remains the same.

[00:42:24]>> All right. So, the person who decided to go for medical examination, if they're in good health, they'll pay a lower premium than this other individual.

[00:42:32]>> Okay.

[00:42:32]>> All right. Um, if their health is uh a bit more deteriorated compared to this person, usually then we'll load some >> risk charges on that. But then we do disclose that and before even issue the policy, you must accept the new terms.

[00:42:47]>> So once you're happy with the incremental premium because of maybe you've got maybe some diabetes or high blood pressure or any other thing, then everything else remains the same. The terms and conditions of payment are the same.

[00:43:01]>> And what if I just refuse to do a medical cover?

[00:43:04]>> No, we we do have an option for you, but you cannot buy beyond a certain limit.

[00:43:09]So if you wanted to cover beyond I think currently it's 15 million shillings then that's a ceiling for you but if you want to buy 20 30 million shillings then you must go for medical examination.

[00:43:20]>> Okay.

[00:43:21]>> Yeah. Okay.

[00:43:21]>> And if you want even more than 100 million then yes you can come and we have that discussion and you go for extra medical reviews.

[00:43:29]>> Yeah.

[00:43:30]>> Okay. Um, can you pay for some of these things up front instead of saying you run into some cash, you did a job, you know, you got a did a gig and you got some cash. You say, "Okay, well, I want this thing for 20 million chillings, whatever." And this is going to be a tender >> and you're here, >> right? And then you say, "Okay, well, I've got the extra cash and I want the 30 million whole life plan."

[00:43:54]>> Can you put the cash up front, pony it up and say, "Okay, let's do the thing.

[00:43:57]Go." So that you can now use your salary to do other things.

[00:44:00]>> Oh yes. Yes. No. As even as a GM for business development.

[00:44:03]>> You like that kind of thing.

[00:44:07]>> So let me give an example like for the 20 million cover.

[00:44:10]>> So um depending on your age um you could >> and these are broad range. Let's say 30 to 50.

[00:44:18]>> Then if you're on 20 million cover then you'll pay probably between 15 and 30% of that 20 million if you paid up front.

[00:44:26]M.

[00:44:27]>> So what is 15% of 20 million? Uh 10% is what? 2 million. 3 million.

[00:44:32]>> 3 million. Yeah.

[00:44:33]>> Yes. 3 million.

[00:44:34]>> Mhm.

[00:44:34]>> And you've got 20 million cover.

[00:44:36]>> Yeah.

[00:44:37]>> And you don't pay anything else. Yeah.

[00:44:39]>> You just wait for >> till the bells.

[00:44:42]>> Yeah. You just wait for parab. And you see at that time then um as well if I paid up front the interest starts compound immediately.

[00:44:51]>> Uh yes.

[00:44:52]>> All right.

[00:44:52]>> Yeah. Yeah, the 20 million grows by 3%, not the 3 million. 20 million. Yes.

[00:44:58]>> Is a 20 million that >> hold up just a minute.

[00:45:02]>> So, it's actually not 20 million.

[00:45:05]>> It's more.

[00:45:06]>> Yeah. Yes. The longer you live, the more you get. The more you get.

[00:45:08]>> Okay. So, you take it when of course it then make that's why it makes sense to take it when you're younger because then as the the long the more you live on that 20 million shillings, you could end up getting 100 million Bob.

[00:45:20]>> Yes.

[00:45:20]>> Uh depending on you know how long you live >> on how long you live. All right, let's >> eat Omena and Duma.

[00:45:27]>> So, okay, it all kinds of uh kind of comes together one of the things that we also find just because of the job that we do is that people will not embrace something that they do not know or understand. And it's also very difficult to let people know something late in the game. So, what am I saying? How early do we start to have insurance conversations? because you started off by talking about that it's not just the whole life plan that you talk about. There are other things that you have in place, education, motor vehicle, health, all sorts of things.

[00:46:00]But the insurance conversation usually starts when somebody has a job >> and they're pretty well ahead in life by the time they've done that. We know that people get jobs very early is possible.

[00:46:09]>> But my point here is that how early in the system do people start to understand the concept of insurance? And I'm talking about at school. How do we start to have that conversation so that you get to understand that okay this is actually something that can help you later and that you can work towards leaving something for later because by the time somebody's 24 25 they're set in their ways.

[00:46:29]>> Yeah.

[00:46:30]>> So how do you set this in the ways of somebody when they are younger?

[00:46:33]>> Oh that is a good question. I think when I reflect on my on my youth I remember there's a subject called commerce in high school and at least I remember seeing insurance there and that's what inspired me to get into this career.

[00:46:47]>> Okay. All right. Uh I'm not too sure about what he's taught in high school right now.

[00:46:52]>> Uh I'm not but >> I I think probably it is probably as a society now start thinking about how do we do financial education for our children and teach them these things at the right age. So at the when they come to work they they are prepared >> and know fine this money I have is not just to enjoy myself.

[00:47:13]>> Maybe I can do that the first year but you know I need to grow up after year one. Yeah.

[00:47:17]>> And then start planning for even basic savings.

[00:47:20]>> So and also having this conversation I see these days maybe especially in companies but in the informal sector we don't have that. You got good HR departments who are working on financial awareness for >> their staff.

[00:47:32]>> Yeah.

[00:47:34]>> But where to start? So I guess if you started let's say you're single then I would say start with saving for the next 3 years.

[00:47:42]>> Okay.

[00:47:42]>> Okay.

[00:47:44]uh maybe later on start saving for retirement also is quite important.

[00:47:49]>> Um I would say life insurance is quite important where you have dependence especially children.

[00:47:54]>> Okay.

[00:47:54]>> Yes. So once you become a parent then I say it is a must have not a nice to have.

[00:47:59]>> Yeah.

[00:48:00]>> Yes.

[00:48:00]>> Yeah. You know one thing about all this is we need to start today. Information needs to get here. But uh there is also the need for one to understand where to go to. So I wanted to come to Britam today, right? Um where do I start from?

[00:48:18]Online, Tik Tok, Facebook.

[00:48:21]>> Fantastic. So uh you've mentioned it here. So start with SMS us at 21778 >> uh with the word life and we'll be able to reach out to you. You also have got our WhatsApp channels. uh uh WhatsApp us at 07 uh 05100100 and you'll be able to reach us out >> or email us at as customer service britam.com >> or uh get in touch. I'm sure many of you may have a Britam financial advisor.

[00:48:52]>> Yes. Call them up and they'll be able to uh come talk to you and tailor make a solution for you based on your specific circumstances.

[00:49:02]>> Yeah.

[00:49:03]>> Okay. And do this saving for for your loved ones for tomorrow, you know, because most of the time I wanted to save to buy a house, but you were talking about you're saving to buy that mansion for them when you're not there to ensure that they sold. I think it's incredible. We need to start that conversation today to make it perhaps a dinner table conversation.

[00:49:25]>> Absolutely. Something that we can talk about all the time.

[00:49:28]>> Uh but that we do have these conversations, I guess, what is what builds um as we go along. Uh Dennis Moria, thank you for joining us in this conversation this morning and just to be able to hear and that it doesn't have to be something like the big bad wolf that we run away from, but that we can actually embrace it. And I think that's one of the things that is why it's important for us to talk this morning.

[00:49:46]>> Thank you for being here.

[00:49:47]>> Thank you for having me, Santias.

[00:49:49]>> Good morning, folks. And thank you for being part of the conversation this morning. This is the situation room.