Peter Cardwell | 21-May-26

インデックス作成: 2026-05-21

[00:00:16]Heat. Heat.

[00:01:53]across the UK on DAV+ on your smart speaker on your smart TV and on your side. This is talk Good evening. Welcome to talk. I'm Peter Cardwell. This is the evening exchange.

[00:02:18]It's great to have your company this Thursday evening. There's so much to talk about. In just a couple of minutes, I'm going to give you some exclusive information passed to me by a source in Golders Green about a man who was seized for having a firearm there. The police have finally responded after 4 hours uh to actually giving us some information about it. Now, what has actually happened there, I'll tell you in a second. We're going to talk about Prince Andrew and the uh the the documentation that's come out today. We'll talk about uh Makerfield, of course, as well. We'll also talk about something that's really really concerning to me, which is the kind of information that's in the public domain. Uh well, it was in the public domain, then it was medical records.

[00:02:56]There are people in the Southport uh caught up in that Southport attack.

[00:02:59]There's three young girls. Their medical information was accessed by people it shouldn't have been. Now we hear today about victims of Valdo Caloka in Nottinghamshire who have had their information accessed by medical people.

[00:03:13]11 people have lost their jobs quite rightly because of that. In a world where the government is saying we need to give them more information and they want digital IDs particularly for health records. Should we trust them with that information? And do you trust NHS employees with your information? Given that over the course of the last 48 hours, we've had these two scandals.

[00:03:32]We'll also talk about young Britain's turning their backs on Starmer's high tax UK. That is the true story of these immigration figures out today. So much to discuss. 0344991000 is the number to call. You can text me 872 with the word talk in your text. You can tweet me at talktv. Follow me at Peter Cardwell. You can send me a WhatsApp voice note, a WhatsApp text message or give me a ring. All on the main number 0344991000.

[00:03:59]Stay with us here on talk.

[00:04:08]So, I was speaking to one of my sources in Goulders Green in London, and that of course was where that dreadful attack happened uh of the stabbing a couple of weeks ago. And we know that anti-semitism is out of control right across the UK. Something happened in Golders Green this afternoon we haven't been told about. And it took 3 4 hours for the Metropolitan Police to even put out a statement about this. They didn't proactively put it out. They didn't send it to all journalists because they were asked about this and they said, "Well, there are so many anti-semitic attacks now that we don't routinely put them out as press releases telling journalists telling the public about them." Why is that? Well, they say there are so many of them, therefore, we don't put it out as often as they happen. But we do have some information about what happened at 2:00 today in Golders Green. And I think it's really disturbing and I think we should have been proactively told about it by the Metropolitan Police. Around 2:00 today, armed officers attended the junction of Woodstock Road and Armitage Road in Golders Green following reports a man had been seen with a firearm in public. Police swiftly arrested a 37year-old man on suspicion of possessing a prohibited firearm. He was taken into custody where he remains. A suspect item was seized at the scene.

[00:05:24]Further examination has determined that the item was an air weapon. So this wasn't a pistol. This was an air weapon.

[00:05:31]A Met spokesman said, "We're aware of the concern this incident is likely to cause given the appalling events in local in the local area in recent weeks.

[00:05:37]Firearms officers rapidly attended the scene and officers are now working to establish the full circumstances around the incident. We remain in close contact with the local community to offer reassurance alongside our additional patrols in the area." Now the reason we know about this on talk, the reason we can tell you this information is because I know someone who knows someone who saw it who says that there are were four armed response vehicles that came there.

[00:05:59]Now obviously this would have caused a huge commotion in the area when people in Goldish Green in North London are incredibly on edge because of what happened not just with the stabbing but also with the Hatala uh ambulances being burned out a few weeks previously just a few hundred yards away. Why are the police not telling us when these things happen? Why do we and other people have to go to the Metropolitan Police uh press office and say, "We've heard about this. Tell us about it." Now, thankfully, this was just an air weapon.

[00:06:28]Nobody was actually injured by it that we know of anyway. The 37year-old man has been arrested on suspicion of possessing a a prohibited firearm and he's in custody as the police have told us. But why is the leg work having to be done here? I think this is really concerning. We'll talk to Isabelle shot in just a second about all the big issues of the day about Andrew, about the cost of living, about migration numbers, all that kind of stuff. But I just want her reaction now to this.

[00:06:53]Isabelle, am I the only person who thinks we should have been told about this far in advance of knocking the press offic's door and they're routinely not putting this information out now because anti-semitic incidents are so prevalent. Your reaction, Isabelle, good evening.

[00:07:11]>> Good evening. Well, it's a really serious story and congratulations to you for your sources and your contacts that enabled you to to bring this to light.

[00:07:22]And I do think it is very worrying if anti-semitism has become so kind of shrug shrug routine just another day in in the glorious UK that this is just not seen as much of a story um and not enough of a story or enough of a source of public interest for it to be uh brought into public attention. And how many I guess it begs the question as well. How many more incidents are there really serious incidents that we're not being told about? Um, funny enough, I was wondering earlier this week whether the police actually have any kind of statutory duty uh to publicize incidents or is it up to the media or members of the public to ask for information if thing has happened? And I don't actually know the answer to that question. Peter, you may know. I think it's up to them. I think they can decide themselves. They will have internal processes, but I don't think there's any statutory uh strategy um rules around it necessarily.

[00:08:27]>> Well, I think it's a really um important question because there are there I suspect that there are other very sensitive areas of uh criminality that are also being hushed up.

[00:08:40]>> Oh, totally. Well, we know as well, Isabelle, and you and I have talked about this before about the fact they'll give some information about ethnicity and background of people in some incidents, but then not in others. And that seems a real patchwork, too. There has to be total consistency here in terms of what they tell us and when they tell us as well.

[00:08:58]>> Well, there's no consistency either between police forces on some of this stuff. And it's something I'm doing a little bit of work on and it's far from ready to to share. But I think that we need to understand better what is the police policy on actively putting out information about certain types of crimes, whether that's anti-semitism or whether it's crimes in particularly sensitive political areas like crimes uh linked to asylum status for example. And are they routinely collecting the immigration status of sus either those that are suspected of crimes or those that are charged. I suspect that this information is not remotely being routinely collected. In fact, there's probably hardly any forces that are routinely collecting it. And I think it's really important. Well, I was on air almost exactly a year ago, Isabelle, the 26th of May last year when there was that dreadful uh incident in Liverpool just as they were celebrating having won the Premier League where uh the car was driven into uh people there. And I know there's active proceedings around that, so I don't want to um prejudice those in any way, but the point is that we were told very very quickly that a white British man was the suspect. I remember literally that was on the Monday. I remember it very very clearly and I remember literally on the Saturday there was a smaller less serious still very serious for the people involved obviously but there was a less serious incident in Leicester where a man driving a car drove into three people there was a man later arrested for that and we got his name and ethnicity then but that wasn't until about the Monday or the Tuesday and I remember working with my producers then on the Saturday when that incident was initially reported asking Lester police and saying what is the e ethnicity and the background of the suspect of the person who you have h are questioning on this and they wouldn't tell us now we later found out it was a sick man in Leicester it doesn't really matter but the point is that that could have been some that information could have been pertinent to what we were talking about instead Leicester police in that particular incident didn't tell us what was happening whereas we were told pretty instantly I remember I was on air with Kevin O Sullivan both I did both my own show and then Kevin as Well, and within about an hour, we were told with Liverpool that the suspect was a white British man. There has to be consistency across this.

[00:11:30]>> There has to be, and I think it has to not just lean towards disclosure, but just have a clear policy of full disclosure. Uh, but I would like to see it go further. Um, and be not just about ethnicity, but about crucially about asylum and immigration status. I think that's really really important. I >> I think you're absolutely correct with that. Um when I'm told that with these uh bits of information, it's called it's it's in an if ask basis. So if the people are asked about it, they will be told. I mean given how easy it is to publish information. I'm not talking about flooding journalists inboxes with an email every single time, but you may at least put it on your Twitter or your uh website. Anyway, we'll return to this and Isabelle, I look forward to the findings of your reporting that you referenced there and no doubt we'll talk about that more. Uh, you've referenced there and mentioned immigration status and asylum status today. Of course, Kier Starmer said he was proud of immigration numbers. Let's see what he said.

[00:12:32]>> Very pleased to see the migration figures this morning come down significantly. Um, and that's obviously on the top of the news about waiting lists last week where we had a record drop in waiting lists and of course the news about growth, the money we've got in our economy, the fastest growing economy uh in the G7. So that's all really good news within about a week or so. Um, and of course today we're announcing cost living package um for the summer for families. So um I'm really proud that we're getting on and delivering. Thank you very much.

[00:13:01]>> Is it all too little too late do you think Prime Minister?

[00:13:03]>> This is really good delivery. This is really significant. So, I'm very very pleased. All of those figures are good news. Taken together, they're a very strong package.

[00:13:10]>> The government also announcing today discounts on family attractions. Rachel Reeves talking about the summer and how it's all going to be wonderful. This is what the chancellor said.

[00:13:19]>> I can today announce a temporary cut in the rate of VAT on summer attractions from 20% to 5% over the summer holidays.

[00:13:30]This will apply to ticket prices for both adults and children covering attractions such as fairs, theme parks, zoos, and museums.

[00:13:40]>> It will include children's tickets for cinemas, concerts, soft play, and the theater. And it will cut the cost of children's meals in restaurants and cafes from 20% VAT to 5% as well.

[00:13:54]These changes will apply across the UK from the start of the Scottish school holidays on the 25th of June and run until the end of school holidays in England, Wales, and Northern Ireland on the 1st of September.

[00:14:08]>> Let's start with the immigration figures, Isabelle. Uh there's a lot hidden here, isn't there? Especially given how many people are leaving the UK for tax reasons. Perhaps you could uh give us your insight into that.

[00:14:20]Yeah, I mean I don't want to be chish about this. You know th those figures I was really quite pleasantly surprised when I heard 171,000. I mean that is so much better than where we were a few years ago. But nonetheless, these are still extra people coming in. This isn't like it's, you know, when we say it's fallen, it's not fallen below zero to a net negative. It is still another 171,000 people being added to our population and that is only the statistics uh that the that the government has managed to collect. I don't trust the statistics.

[00:14:57]We know that there are huge numbers trickling through. If you can have huge numbers trickling, there are significant numbers coming through uh in the back of lorries in cars. uh not just the small boats which we focus so much of our attention on but the old-fashioned methods of breaking into our country and these people simply slip into the black economy. Uh and we don't know just the scale of the number of people who are just simply un undocumented not properly registered at all in our country but I suspect it's vast. Um, and you asked about the number of people leaving.

[00:15:35]That's so significant because not not just in a in a sheer kind of quantum of people leaving, but the fact that we're swapping in general people coming in with very low skills or no skills at all in the case of uh a lot of the channel migrants uh with people who are the wealth creators and the entrepreneurs and crucially young people who've just decided, you know what, working in the UK right now just doesn't stack up. it's too difficult to get a job and if you can land a job just look how much money goes out the window to a government that squanders it.

[00:16:12]>> So many people realizing that the uh lower taxes in other places and not just uh places where there's zero taxation but just even slightly lower tax elsewhere in Europe and so on is a is a big big issue. What do you make of these summer discounts Isabelle? Is this going to mean everybody has an absolutely amazing summer because they have slightly more money in their pocket?

[00:16:32]Well, again, I mean, it was quite cheery, wasn't it? I don't just want to be negative about everything and say it's nothing. And, you know, I actually haven't I don't recall a government doing this before. Not quite like it. I mean, we had the eat out to help out during co. So, I think these are really nice gestures, but what sticks in the throat for me is to hear Karma yet again talking about how proud he is. I mean, I've never known a prime minister talk so endlessly about how proud he is with so little to be proud of. Um, going on about how we're the fastest growing economy in the G7, something that Rachel Reeves keeps um, prattling on about. I mean, 0.6% growth.

[00:17:16]>> In many countries, that would be a source of absolute humiliation.

[00:17:19]>> G the G7 as well. I mean the it having the greatest growth in the G7 is a bit like saying you're the tallest of Snow White's housemates. I mean it is not something to be massively proud of.

[00:17:31]>> No, I mean these these um EU economies are grinding along and really struggling. Germany and France in particular really really struggling. So they're grasping for things that are positive to say and I just don't think 0.6% 6% growth is something positive, especially in a week that we found out that unemployment has has spiked right up to 5%.

[00:17:55]>> And having an impact on the half a million illegal immigrants in the capital, according to the Telegraph, one in 13 people in London as an illegal immigrant. I wonder if we could talk a little bit about Prince Andrew and the revelations today. The Queen pushing for him to be this international envoy way back in 2000. Robin Cook, there's a name for the P from the past, the foreign secretary, saying that he should be utilized as a trade envoy. What do you make of these revelations today?

[00:18:22]>> Well, I've been very I've long been very interested in Prince Andrew and what he did with that role and how he used it to basically line his his own and his family's pockets. And there was another revelation that came out today about how he sort of privately indicated that he wanted to go to more sophisticated countries, whatever that means. But my own research on Prince Andrew and the cache of emails that I obtained between him and the financiers that he worked with during his time when he was a trade envoy suggested he was happy to go anywhere. uh in some really questionable places with questionable regimes uh as long as it looked like it might generate him a pile of cash.

[00:19:09]>> Yeah. Um listen, thank you for that, Isabelle. Isabelle Oshot there, international editor here at Talk. Thank you to Joanna in Salsbury. He says, "Hi, Cardi B." Hi, Joanna. So, 15% discounts on attractions in August. Like that isn't going to go wrong. Few will visit attractions the rest of the summer and there'll be huge crowds in August. My medical data safe just like 19 million had data access in France last week.

[00:19:28]than the government are selling our data to. No way to digital ID, says Joan and Margaret in Birmingham. Says Starmer is a top class hypocrite. I've just read he's going to campaign in Makerfield for Andy Burnham. He blocked him months ago.

[00:19:40]Well, there you go. Reform will win hands down. Well, it's appears certainly with polling that we have that it is a straight battle between Reform UK and the um and the Labor Party and Andy Burnham. It'll be really interesting to see what happens. We certainly will have nominations closing on Tuesday. We know there are candidates uh like uh Rachel Shepard uh Rebecca Shepard, apologies for Restore uh Britain. We know that the Green Party's candidate lasted only a day uh before withdrawing and they're going to have to find a new candidate.

[00:20:12]We know that uh there the Must Looney Party are running a candidate as well.

[00:20:16]And there's going to be someone dressed as a fox as well because of uh animal welfare issues. Bi-elections often attract quite a number of different people to them. will have full coverage of that of course on the 18th and indeed when the result comes out on the 19th of June. So it's all happening very soon but the nominations go in between now and Tuesday and then after Tuesday we'll know exactly who is standing and for whom uh in total right then we will go to the debate desk in a second with the journalist Candace Holsworth and research associate at the Adam Smith Institute Vigo Turling. Tell us your thoughts on any of these stories. Give me a shout, give me a ring. We'll have some calls maybe even with Candace and uh with Vigo as well actually.

[00:20:55]0344991000.

[00:20:58]Stay with us.

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[00:23:19]Hey, hey, hey.

[00:23:37]Heat.

[00:23:46]Hey, Heat.

[00:24:01]across the UK on DAB+ on your smart speaker on your smart TV and on your side.

[00:24:12]This is talk.

[00:24:16]Thanks to Mal who says Starmer's claim that they have reduced immigration is true on one side and nonsense on the other. That's because anyone with a valid reason to come and work in the UK doesn't want to because we are a basket case. Isolate the legal and illegal immigration figures. And I bet that they will show an increase in the illegals and a decrease in the legals is what Mal thinks. Paul and Belfast says reducing or free fairs for kids will only encourage kids to travel alone or with their young friends. Parents, the most expensive part of a family fair will still be charged full price. All this will do is be encouraged children to travel with pedophiles and grooming gangs on the lookout for lots of kids on trains and buses traveling with their friends, says Paul in Belfast. I mean, I I know what you mean, Paul. I do want kids to have a nice summer and to be able to go out and about with their uh friends if they're old enough and responsible enough in order to do so. I just remember even from I mean, it seems crazy now, but from the age of I think I was about 10 when I first got a front door key and would come home and be on my own for a couple of hours. It would never happen now, but it was absolutely fine then. And it was it was judged a perfectly normal way to live in our very very safe village that I was privileged to grow up with in in Northern Ireland.

[00:25:18]Um I should say I'm actually heading back there for a few nights and I won't be here tomorrow or Monday. I know Charlie Roelly is in tomorrow night, but I will be here on Tuesday and uh then right through uh the rest of next week.

[00:25:31]So I'm looking forward to that. But I am taking a break for a couple of days. But I'm here very much until 10:00 this evening in body, mind, and spirit. And I'm delighted that Candace Holsworth, the political commentator, and Viggo Turling, the research associate at the Adam Smith Institute are with me on the debate desk this evening. How you doing?

[00:25:45]>> Good, good, >> good to see you both. Um, let's start with the Prince Andrew revelations. Uh, Vigo, what are your thoughts on what we know now that we didn't this morning?

[00:25:56]>> Yeah, the big headline this today has been that the Queen was reportedly very keen to have Andrew play this role as a trade envoy that he did from 2011 onwards. Look, I don't like how the media have framed this. I think the media is trying to place some sort of blame or on on the Queen's shoulders in my opinion. And I and I would just say this. I think it's natural that the queen wanted a prominent senior member of the royal family to play a greater role and a role that was good.

[00:26:23]>> Also, it was 26 years ago and we didn't know >> the stuff we know now about Epstein.

[00:26:28]Although it is interesting because the role of the queen is certainly being re-evaluated in all of this, especially when it comes to the money that was given to Virginia Dupra for example. So I mean that we think was her money. She was very old at the time but old people still have judgment. So perhaps our view of the queen is changing. What do you think Vic?

[00:26:48]>> I I think the queen was a fantastic statesoman. I think we shouldn't be retrospective with her reputation.

[00:26:53]Obviously, all figures of authority should be questioned, but I think it was natural for the queen and good for the monarchy that that case was settled out of court and the queen paid for it with her personal funds and not taxpayer money. I think that's important to note.

[00:27:05]>> Carters, >> yeah, I mean, for me, I found the whole thing underwhelming. I don't think it really told me anything new that something needed to be found for Andrew.

[00:27:13]Nothing with too much responsibility. I mean, he said, "I'm not interested in the detail. Just like update me occasionally."

[00:27:18]>> Yeah. There was this um there was this uh particular board that he said, "Oh, I don't want to sit on all these boring board meetings. Just give me a general update."

[00:27:25]>> Yes. And he liked to go to very sophisticated countries, not boring countries. So, yeah. So, for me, I mean, that was all pretty obvious. Yeah.

[00:27:33]>> Can we can we read anything into the fact that he wanted to go to the Philippines, for example? I mean, is is that is that something should is is that too tinfoiled?

[00:27:41]>> I don't know. For me, I try to resist personally a lot of the conspiratorial stuff around Epstein. I mean, he 100% was convicted. We know he was, as was Gileain Maxwell, but a lot of the other stuff sort of swirling around it. No, a lot of it is just accusation that hasn't yet been proven. Even with Prince Andrew, I mean, I would stand on principle with that. I would say that, you know, presumption of innocence is still really important.

[00:28:05]>> Errors of judgment though.

[00:28:07]>> Oh, for sure. Yes. I mean, he continued his friendship with Epstein even when he knew what had happened. And I mean for someone in his position, he should have been way more discerning. Absolutely.

[00:28:17]Because he has brought disrepute into the onto the royal family. Absolutely.

[00:28:22]But I would say that we still need to establish exactly what happened. And and that's not clear to me. I feel like there's this little bubble online that just assumes that they know everything about this matter and that he's totally guilty without actually providing hard evidence. And I think we need to maintain that standard. I think society needs that. Otherwise, we become a bit more medieval, right? where you just point fingers.

[00:28:43]>> It's a fair point. Um do you think that I mean the thing is there'll be so much more to come on this as well. All the Mandlesson revelations will come out.

[00:28:50]There'll be far more information in the public domain actually in a week or two when that all come out. But do you honestly believe the queen bears no responsibility for Andrew's behavior and the lifetime of support that she gave him.

[00:29:02]>> I of course the queen plays some degree of responsibility. I think I was on was on the debate desk a few weeks ago and we were talking about parental responsibility in in you know a child's behavior and yes of course the queen as Prince Andrew's mother as the head of the crown uh of of the monarchy uh obviously bears some responsibility of Andrew's behavior absolutely but to frame her in the way that I think she's been framed in the media today is just wrong.

[00:29:28]>> Andrew was an adult and he was responsible for his own actions.

[00:29:31]>> Okay. Um let's uh we'll talk more about that in a second. I wonder what you think about how the queen has been portrayed today. Should we just leave her uh in peace and leave their memory and let her rest in peace? Although, as a public figure, obviously, history exists. There is examination of all of this. We're going to be talking about this a little bit more uh later in the program, but I'd be really interested to hear what our viewers and listeners think. 0344991000.

[00:29:53]I want to talk about these holiday discounts next. We'll do that after the break, so stay with us.

[00:30:16]Hey, hey, hey.

[00:30:38]Hey, across the UK. Okay.

[00:31:26]On DAV Plus, on your smart speaker, on your smart TV, and on your side. This is talk.

[00:31:39]Rob in Burnley's been in touch and thank you for your WhatsApp. 0344991000.

[00:31:43]Send it through WhatsApp. It comes up on the screen in front of me. I hope the palace aren't trying to deflect towards people who can't answer for themselves like Queen Elizabeth II. the brazeness of this cover up to then further delay these files then suggest that further reductions could be made against Parliament's will to protect the reputation of the monarch. Yes, Darren Jones did say that on Wednesday. Rob, I didn't hear him say that, but I don't doubt you. And that is a very interesting point as well. It shouldn't be about reputation. It should be about the truth. I don't want things that are going to be difficult for us intelligence-wise, but if it's embarrassing, it should be in the public domain. Uh we shouldn't necessarily say that people's embarrassment is a factor here as it sometimes is. Uh Paul has been in touch and says all the things Rachel Reef said today are just trying to buy votes in the Makerfield election.

[00:32:25]Well, let's see what the um what the chancellor has been saying about this actually specifically about all these discounts and things that we will be uh getting or families will be getting over the summer.

[00:32:38]>> I can today announce a temporary cut in the rate of VAT on summer attractions from 20% to 5% over the summer holidays.

[00:32:49]This will apply to ticket prices for both adults and children covering attractions such as fairs, theme parks, zoos, and museums.

[00:32:58]>> It will include children's tickets for cinemas, concerts, soft play, and the theater. And it will cut the cost of children's meals in restaurants and cafes from 20% VAT to 5% as well.

[00:33:13]These changes will apply across the UK from the start of the Scottish school holidays on the 25th of June and run until the end of school holidays in England, Wales, and Northern Ireland on the 1st of September.

[00:33:27]>> I don't quite know who to go to first, the mother of three children and the person who was a child until recently.

[00:33:31]Can't sorry, couldn't resist it. Um, can you have three kids? Tell me, will you welcome this? What do you think?

[00:33:37]>> I mean, it just seems like tinkering around the edges to me. I mean, people my age with children, I mean, have far deeper problems when it comes to managing the cost of living. Number one, mortgage costs, energy costs. I mean, those are huge.

[00:33:49]>> This is not a bad thing for you if you want to take your kids out during the summer.

[00:33:52]>> I mean, it's okay, but it's not going to really touch sides. I mean, not really.

[00:33:57]No ways. I mean, there are much, much, much deeper structural issues. I mean, I hear something like that and I go, yeah, it's not going to move the needle. And I don't think anyone my age thinks that with children. Everyone is sort of drowning in mortgage costs and also very high tax. I mean you know your mid to late 30s you are paying a lot more tax and you know that you could use that on your children. You that money you could spend on your children but instead the state is dispensing it for goodness knows who >> I just refuse to believe you're in your late 30s or you're only 23 as 29.

[00:34:26]>> Of course of course forever. Um ve what do you make of this? Look, on the question of whether this will help people like Candice, I'm very unconvinced because primarily because the economic evidence surrounding whether this VAT decrease will actually lead to a decrease in prices is quite weak. But also, Rachel Reeves is spending money as she usually does as she's not addressing the root cause of the issue, which is her terrible policies and how they're damaging the hospitality sector. Like, you know, the increase in employer national insurance.

[00:34:55]Everyone agrees that was a mistake.

[00:34:56]that's what she should be touching, not policies like these.

[00:35:00]>> Um, tell me your thoughts, Vigo, actually on Reeves. Has she shown weakness or a lack of conviction by bowing to pressure from supermarkets and the grocery price cap? That seemed to fizzle out rather dramatically.

[00:35:11]>> Yeah. Uh, I don't think whether she's shown weakness or not, I think every member of the Labor front bench has shown weakness from time to time during their two years in government. They're not that decisive to be honest, but the fact that she's caved on this is fantastic. Price controls are not a good thing to have in any economy. There's a fantastic book called 40 centuries of price controls which essentially showed that price controls have never worked ever and to instate them would be a massive mistake for our economy and for our country.

[00:35:39]>> Yeah.

[00:35:39]>> Um we're getting some calls on this. I wonder if we can get Nigel in London on the line who's called in. Can we just give him a ring and see if we can have a chat with Candace with VGO. I mean do you think the chancellor really understands what families are going through? She wants people to have a slightly better summer, of course, but will you're saying it won't really touch the sides, but it's not something that's going to make life more difficult, is it?

[00:36:00]>> No. Look, people I speak to in Labor say that they do they do have some understanding of what's going on. Like they do want to make it easier for younger people, people with families, but I just feel like they're not bold enough, you know? they don't do the things that would really make a difference like revolutioniz revolution you know completely changing the planning system you know improving housing I mean at the moment where I live like on the outskirts of London the average age is about 35 so people with families are just moving further and further out of London loads of schools are closing down in central London because people can't afford to raise a family there are the much bigger issues right like those are the things that are going to make a material difference most people I know can't afford to upsize their home because the next level up is like a million half pounds. I mean, that wasn't the same for our parents. Our parents could reliably look forward to improving their standard of living.

[00:36:55]Whereas, I feel like people our age are just getting used to lower and lower living standards. And yeah, like yeah, it's nice to go out. It's nice to take your kids, but actually you want to have hope for the future. You want to make be able to make the big changes and I just don't think they're capable of doing that.

[00:37:09]>> David and Lester has been in touch and says, "Love your show." Thank you, David. Reeves is acting like a Roman emperor. Distract the plebs with some cheap entertainment. Bread and circus as some would say. Uh nothing meaningful.

[00:37:18]This government is the end of the left forever. They're utterly disgusting, says David. Nigel in London. We've got him on the line. Uh you're on with me Nigel, but also Vego and Candice on the debate desk. What would you like to say about this?

[00:37:30]>> Well, good evening Peter. Good evening to your panel.

[00:37:32]>> Good evening. I wanted to say I wanted to say simply is if I was a family I'm not interested in saving 15% VAT on Legoland tickets which cost start at £32 and go up and up and up. I'm interested to saving money on groceries, my everyday essentials and my heating and gas bills. And I think I think Rachel Re's got it wrong. There are not very many families on a low income can afford to take mom and dad, their two or three kids to Legoland for a day out without refreshments which are going to cost much more money on top.

[00:38:04]>> Well, indeed, although we know from uh reporting in the spectator that we talked about a few weeks ago that actually if you're on Universal Credit, there are huge discounts. Well, this will help some people in some ways. I is a little bit of help better than no help, Nigel, or do you think it's even possible to bring down those energy bills? And is that even the role of the government to do so? Well, it's interesting, Peter. You mentioned about the universal critic. I think some of these refractions are about a fiber, aren't they? Yeah, that's right.

[00:38:31]Which is which is hugely discounted. I I think Rachel Reeves needs to realize, you know, everything is a screener and it's a headline and a clickbait grab. I I think that if I was Rachel Reeves, I want to be more encouraging to families and say, "Let me help you with the cost of living." Fuel is nearly 161.

[00:38:50]>> But that's a lot more expensive. Nigel, I'm not saying she shouldn't do that.

[00:38:53]I'm simply saying that that's a lot more expensive. This is something This is 300 million quid, which sounds like a lot, but really isn't when it comes to public spending.

[00:39:01]>> No, it isn't. But I I think she should do something a little bit more for families because as I say, there will be families who are going to go to these attractions and and enjoy them, but they're more interested in everyday essentials and of course to heat their home when >> So do you do you then support what she did with the groceries then trying to get those uh those staples like milk ed and eggs and bread? I I foolishly said the other day that Iceland didn't sell those. Of course they do. Um and I'm apologize for doing so. A couple of people pointed that out in Twitter. I I can't get everything right. uh unfortunately but I mean do you think Nigel that those uh those those attempts anyway which seem to have fizzled out were worthwhile?

[00:39:38]>> Well I don't because do you remember years ago that term stagflation? Yeah that was in was it the 70s or the 80s where where there was some sort of control and and it and it it made things actually considerably worse.

[00:39:51]>> Nigel listen thanks for your views on that. I appreciate that. That's Nigel in London there. What do you make of what he said there? Um well I think he raised some important issues. I think um what I would say and as I as I said before I think on the issue of price controls it's really important that we remember that they have simply never worked >> and uh I I' I'd encourage Nigel to to to read the book I referenced for centuries on price controls and wage inflation.

[00:40:17]>> Uh it's fantastic that Reeves fell back on this issue and um I hope I hope we start seeing more sensible economic policy in the future.

[00:40:24]>> Yeah.

[00:40:25]>> Yeah. Look, I mean, you know, what he said is absolutely right. I think people are very worried about um groceries. I mean, I've seen my grocery bill just quadruple. Things are just getting more and more and more expensive. Although, some have said to me, compared to places like the US, like actually our groceries are quite cheap. Um >> well, I was talking to the um Paris correspondent of the Times the other day actually, he said, "He comes here and I can't believe how cheap food is."

[00:40:48]>> Yes. Yes. And you get egg shortages in France and people are completely tolerant of it. But we're not here. We would never tolerate that. Though I do know they're very very worried about possible um CO2 shortages right in the summer if the straits of Hormuse stay closed which could mean that we have a shortages of things like fresh meat. I don't know if that will happen.

[00:41:05]>> We know that French people only need one egg each. Do you know why?

[00:41:08]>> Why?

[00:41:08]>> Cuz in France one egg is enough. Stay with us here on talk.

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[00:43:15]across the UK on DAB+ on your smart speaker on your smart TV and on your mind. This is talk.

[00:43:31]>> Kirst was talking about migration figures today. He's very happy with them. We've already had a chat with Isabel Oak about it. We think about 75,000 young people have left the UK because uh perhaps of the tax regime or just the cost of living. The prime minister though was very happy with those figures today. This is what he told ITV News.

[00:43:52]pleased to see the migration figures this morning come down significantly.

[00:43:57]Um, and that's obviously on the top of the news about waiting lists last week where we had a record drop in waiting lists and of course the news about growth, the money we've got in our economy, the fastest growing economy uh in the G7. So that's all really good news within about a week or so. Um, and of course today we're announcing cost living package um for the summer for families. So um I'm really proud that we're getting on and delivering. Thank you very Is it all too little, too late, do you think, Prime Minister?

[00:44:23]>> This is really good delivery. This is really significant. So, I'm very, very pleased. All of those figures are good news. Taken together, they're very strong package.

[00:44:30]>> All of those figures are good news.

[00:44:32]Taken together, they're very strong package is what the prime minister said.

[00:44:35]Quite a lot of reaction to this, including from Penny in Essex, who says Reeves doesn't give a toss about children having a lovely summer. She's just touting for votes and making it look how look how wonderful she is.

[00:44:43]She's totally out of her depth. A dreadful woman who cannot pull the will over her eyes. And Penny's opinion. Fay also in Essex says Rachel Ree doesn't get it at all. It's what we're not left with at the end of the month. Not the discounts and eating out and attractions. Lower the cost of being alive. It can't be that hard to work out, says Fay. Uh Neil in Stokeon Trent says, "Good evening, Peter." Good evening, Neil. Uh all this talk about the reduction to 5% VAT on children's meals will not make much difference as a large number of restaurants attract families already by offering a kids eat free deal. That's a very interesting point, too. Quite a lot in the Queen. I think I'll come back to those in a minute or two. But uh Robert says, "These holiday discounts, I'm an older gentleman. I'm disabled with no children. My nearest zoo and theme park is over 30 miles away. So how does this help me?" Um Debbie says, "If we are the best in the G7, then why do we need to get closer to Europe? We're doing okay without them." On the immigration figures, Vigo, I wonder what you think.

[00:45:36]Uh especially given how many young people and people kind of your age and a bit older are actually uh leaving this country.

[00:45:43]>> Yeah. Uh firstly, Peter, credit where credit's due. I think we're seeing >> Can you just turn your thing down a little bit? It's just squeaking a little bit. Your just your uh is it is it his ear earphones or what is it? Yeah, if you could just uh there's a little volume control there. Yeah, there's just a little bit squeaking there. Sorry if I go. Yeah. No worries. Uh uh credit where credit's due. The PM, the Labour Party, their policies are starting to produce some positive effects, although some um and you raise a very important point.

[00:46:08]Yes, im uh immigration is down, nest immigration, but 200,000 young people are leaving the country. We we we need >> How do we work out that figure, Viggo?

[00:46:18]Because I've seen 75,000. I've seen 200,000. Where do we get that from?

[00:46:22]>> Well, that that's just ONS data. The the ONS has Office of National Statistics.

[00:46:26]>> Exactly. The Office of National Statistics. They they collect data on immigration and immigration across all age groups and also professions, non-EU, EU nationals. So, nationality as well.

[00:46:36]So we get that figure and and we see that that that young people are disproportionately leaving this country and that's important because they're the future and if they don't stay then we have a real issue going forward.

[00:46:48]>> Carlos, what do you make of these figures? Because certainly Rishiak would say that this vindicates his policy.

[00:46:53]They're down to 171 net migration. But the hidden bit of it is the fact that people are leaving. There's still plenty of people coming here, fewer than previously, but there are lots of people leaving because they just don't like this country and the way it works and operates, particularly when it comes to what we've been talking about, the cost of living.

[00:47:09]>> Yeah, I think yes, that's it. That's the key point that I think that these figures are skewed by the enormous enormous amounts of people leaving and the ONS actually had to revise that upwards. They had no idea that a quarter of a million people have been leaving this country actually since before Labor. That's the interesting thing.

[00:47:26]It's not just to do with policies. You know, as much as I'm very critical of it, this existed before and I think a lot of it is to do with the very very deep systemic issues that are just sort of taking out all the British prime ministers that we've had since what, like 2016. Yeah.

[00:47:41]>> Um >> could be on our seventh soon.

[00:47:43]>> I know. Look, I need more granular data.

[00:47:45]I need to know exactly um who is leaving, why, where they're going, what their long-term plans are. You know the thing is as well what complicates it is that the Anglophere countries do we all kind of move to each other's countries depending on how things are going like we have that option right like the French don't necessarily have that option they know there's not many other French-speaking countries that they can move to whereas for us we can go to Canada we can go to Australia we can go to New Zealand and vice versa so I think there is always quite a lot of movement between these countries but I want to know you know >> are we at a very unique moment where because ane I think we can all say the young are actually quite pessimistic about things.

[00:48:25]>> Well, let's speak to one of them who is an immigrant. What What do you make of it?

[00:48:28]>> Well, well, I am born here.

[00:48:30]>> Oh, you're born here. Sorry. Your family your family immigrated.

[00:48:33]>> Exactly. I'm I'm a second I'm a second gen immigrant. But what we're seeing talk talking about the granular evidence. What we're seeing is for example second gen immigrants like me, but Polish second generation immigrants.

[00:48:43]>> You're Swedish, is that correct?

[00:48:44]>> I'm Swedish. Swedish.

[00:48:45]>> Exactly. Born to two Swedish parents.

[00:48:47]But those in this country born to two Polish parents. Obviously, we had lots of Polish immigration to this country.

[00:48:52]What we're seeing now is that they are >> being born here and then they're moving back to Poland to seek jobs there. Now, the Poles do a lot of good work in this country and it's a shame to lose them.

[00:49:02]We're also seeing British nationals, young British nationals leaving for studies and staying an extra year now.

[00:49:07]So, so we have a real youth immigration crisis.

[00:49:10]>> Yeah, it's a very very good point. Um, FY and Esex has been in touch and says, "I am currently working on my second job to keep my head above water financially while listening to your great show."

[00:49:19]will f I hope we're helping pass the time. Whatever you're up to, uh good for you for doing that and that is I mean these are tough times and I'm delighted that you can message in and uh that we're perhaps keeping you company as you're doing that second job and keeping your head above water and good for you.

[00:49:33]You're clearly an absolute grafter as are so many of the people who watch and listen to this program. There'll be people driving lries right now uh who have working long hours who have us on in their cab. There'll be people who are uh doing jobs, extra jobs in the evening like Fay or people going out to do a bit of extra manual work or delivery drivers. There'll be people sitting at home who've had a very long day who are watching or listening to this program and uh there are lots of people who really do work very very hard in this economy and it's great to have you as our viewers and listeners. We never ever forget that it's not just we're not just talking to nobody. We're talking to people who have real lives, real concerns and that's why we love hearing from you and do get in touch 0344991000 like Andy has. He says it's all right.

[00:50:13]Good old Rachel. Lowering the prices on the attractions however much how much more does it cost in today's climate to drive to them is a very good point as well. Frank says, "Tell your silly commentator, my parents couldn't afford to buy their own, so no, our parents didn't always have it better. If we stop immigrants coming in, it might have the indigenous population's chance to buy a house. Silly woman. Sorry if I misgendered her." Um, you haven't been misgendered. Um, I'm not sure you're silly, but you're definitely a woman. I think you're very happy about that. Uh, Candace, >> I mean, I think that the data just speaks for itself. I mean, yeah, my family also like actually no, he's absolutely wrong because my family came from the working classes and they did improve their standard of living. So, no, I'm not silly. I know what I'm talking about.

[00:50:51]>> Okay. Um, speaking of being a woman, um, trans issues are, uh, something that has come up yet again and now we know that Bridget Phillips, who's not just the education secretary, when she's, um, sort of hanging out with Jama Collins, uh, but she is, uh, saying the trans people are still protected as single sex base guidance has been laid. This has been coming for a very long time. It's finally here. What do you make of it, Candace?

[00:51:13]>> I It just feels like a regression to me.

[00:51:15]It feels like we're still having the same discussions since 2020. I thought the Supreme Court ruling had settled it.

[00:51:21]But no, because I think actually for a lot of people on the left and particularly the Labour left, they're very ideological about this and they still haven't quite accepted what the argument that the gender critical um feminists have been trying to make that we need to protect female only spaces that biological sex is a real thing and they just haven't been able to ac accept it. So I feel like we just keep having the same discussion over and over and over and we keep making the same arguments. Bigger, do you feel there's a sort of groundhog day aspect to this?

[00:51:51]>> Not I suppose I understand the argument, but I actually think this guidance is very important because you can't expect all businesses to interpret the law in the same way. So therefore, they need government to explain to them how to interpret situations around trans rights, for example. And the guidance is actually really compromising. It both respects a trans person's right not to be discriminated against by saying they must have access to some toiletry facility obviously whereas also making it clear that a trans woman shouldn't be uh in in a in a man's bathroom or vice versa. So so so yeah I think I think the guidance is important.

[00:52:26]>> Okay. I just want to respond to what Phil in Portsmouth has said. Let me just get this info on my phone from my source actually uh because he's referenced something that we talked about a little bit earlier on in the program. That's what happened in Golders Green. He says, "With regards to the police not saying what's going on in Golders Green, my daughter who uh lives just down the road from where the ambulances were set fire to. As a father, I want to know. She's not Jewish, but her safety still scares me a lot as a dad," says Phil in Portsouth. Well, Phil, this is uh another attack or sorry, it's not an attack. is an attempted um well it's an incident anyway in Golders Green and I was told about this earlier by a source who is there and finally we got some information out of the police after about 3 or four hours and I'll just read you what the police have given us the Metropol Police around 2:00 today armed officers attended a junction of a place called Woodstock Road and Armage Road in Golders Green that won't mean a huge amount to people who don't live there and you know obviously we're a huge country but it is in Golders Green not a huge uh number of uh yards away from where the ambulances were uh set on fire and where that stabbing happened as well. I don't know the complete geography, but Golder Green isn't a huge place. Uh following reports, a man had been seen with a firearm in public.

[00:53:37]Police swiftly arrested a 37year-old man on suspicion of possessing a prohibited firearm. He was taken into custody where he remains. A suspect item was seized at the scene. Further examination since determined that the item was an air weapon. A Met spokesman said, "We are aware of the concern this incident is likely to cause given the appalling events in the local area in recent weeks." Firearms officers rapidly attended the scene and officers are now working to establish the full circumstances around the incident. We remain in close contact with the local community to offer reassurance alongside our additional patrols in the area. So, Phil, I'm very happy to uh sort of update you on that. If you go if you scroll back on YouTube or uh you go on our catchup service and see the very start of the program, there's a bit more information about it there and reaction from Isabelle Oakshot as well. We'll not talk about it too much more now. I think I've given you the details, but the thing that really concerns me is the fact the police aren't telling us about these things proactively. Uh they're saying they're doing it in response to uh journalistic inquiries and they're also uh saying that um that there are so many of these incidents now that actually they're not going to do that proactively. Um a breaking story in the Telegraph now Reer and Reer embroiled in an election fraud row. Uh when I have more information about that, I will bring it to you. But as you know throughout this story, throughout this program, quite a lot of the papers now put stuff online beforehand. As soon as I have more information on that, I'll bring it to you. I just want to talk about something that happened in Israel as well. This is one of the ministers in the uh in Netanyahu's government. He's coalition and some of those people that he's with are not very nice at all. And Minister Ben Gavir uh did this.

[00:55:34]Is it okay?

[00:55:51]So there are pro Palestinian activists who've gone across on this flotillaa and the national security minister Ben Gavir uh put out footage himself on his social media showing him taunting activists kneeling with hands tied behind their backs and uh the UK had summoned Israel's top diplomat the charge defairs Danielle Gutsky atkine over the incident the foreign said the move reflected the UK's strong condemnation of Ben Gavir's conduct in taunting those involved in the global smood uh flutilla. Now I think the flutilla is a really stupid idea. I think it's it doesn't help any Gaza citizens at all but this is really unsemly horrible behavior by a nasty man uh who is part of the Israeli government. Vigo, what did you make of it when you saw the uh footage?

[00:56:36]>> Uh I I was deeply disappointed. Look, um I may say something controversial now, especially if you're a uh for some fans of Eurovvision, but uh Israel is a hugely important country. It's a strong democracy in the Middle East, and there aren't that many of those. And I am inclined to support the state of Israel, but but I believe their government and some of its ministers and even its prime minister continually shoot themselves in the feet because when you see clips like those, how can you publicly go out and continue supporting these?

[00:57:05]>> I feel exactly the same. I agree with every single word you've just said, Calvis.

[00:57:09]>> Yeah. I mean, he's a controversial figure in Israel himself. I mean, my Israeli friends who are more center right, liberal, moderate, they don't agree with him. I mean, you know, he's like very much on the extreme fringe. I mean, didn't actually serve in the army because of his politics. So, yeah, I mean, I think that um they know like I think Netanyahu has said like Israel is losing that social media war. He comes along, he does stuff like this. It's so counterproductive and it's going to be used by their enemies.

[00:57:34]>> Yeah. Having said that, however, you know, those people on the Gaza flotilla are incredibly hostile to the state of Israel, and we mustn't lose sight of that.

[00:57:43]>> Well, we mustn't lose sight of that, but they also don't deserve to be belittled by someone who is not uh in those in that the situation there in. Uh we're going to talk a little bit later on the program. We just don't have time right now to talk about the medical records and the absolute disgrace over those because I want to bring you this breaking news. We will talk about the medical records, but I just want to bring you this breaking news on Angela Rener. This is Angela Rainer embroiled in a row linked to alleged electoral fraud at her local council. Four men and a woman have been arrested that happened this morning on suspicion of conspiracy to defraud. According to Greater Manchester Police, the alleged plot was reportedly carried out by people associated with TMside Labor Group with one discussion said to have taken place in Angela Rener's kitchen. The former deputy prime minister says the developments have nothing to do with her and any suggestion she has been involved in or aware of any alleged wrongdoing is completely baseless. Well, we'll continue to talk about that and get more detail on that. But very, very interesting, certainly in the context of the Labor leadership election. For the meantime, I want to say a huge thank you to uh Vigo and to Candace. They are of course Vigo Charlie. There was a lovely message that came in uh from someone who's a big fan of yours, uh Vigo, and plenty of fans of yours, Candace, including me uh Candace Holsworth, political commentator, Vigo Charlie, who's a research associate at the Adam Smith Institute. Loads more to report.

[00:58:58]We'll get back to that Angela Rener story as well. We'll talk about Andrew and all the rest of it. Uh Reeves, Adrian and Woking says is amputating your right arm while giving your left hand a manicure. That's an arresting image, let me tell you. And David New Zealand says, "I left New Zealand in 2001 under the premise of if I'm going to live in a third world country, I might as well have good weather." The thought of returning, but after a short stay last year, there's nowhere there there's no way it's that bad. And um lots of people uh commenting on my joke as well. In France, one egg is enough.

[00:59:27]The word for fr in French is if. So one egg is enough. So that was the joke which Sharon didn't quite get. Uh but hopefully you'll get it now. Sharon, it's still terrible. Stay with us here on talk.

[01:01:54]across the UK on DAB+ on your smart speaker on your smart TV and on your side.

[01:02:06]This is talk It's just gone 8:00. This is the Evening Exchange on Talk. I'm Peter Cardwell.

[01:02:19]Thank you so much for your company. Some breaking news in regard to Angela Rener.

[01:02:23]The Telegraph is reporting that she has been embroiled in an election fraud rally. She denies any wrongdoing. We'll speak to the former Labor Minister Bill Raml in just a second about that and many other things the government are up to. In the Makerfield bi-election, we know that it's happening on the 18th of June and that nominations close on Tuesday. The green candidate didn't even last a whole day before withdrawing.

[01:02:43]We'll talk as well about the queen.

[01:02:45]Plenty of people getting in touch about Queen Elizabeth and the role she may or may not have had in regard to Andrew. We have more information about him becoming an international trade envoy today. And data is a big big issue. Yeah, we know that the government has so much of it.

[01:02:59]We know that digital ID is something that was in the king's speech just a few days ago, last week actually, seven days ago. So uh should should hospitals have that especially in the context of both Nottingham the Valdo Calakane case and the Southport case of medical records being accessed wrongly? Lots to discuss.

[01:03:18]0344991000.

[01:03:20]You can text me 872 with the word talk in your text. You can tweet me at talktv. Follow me at Peter Cardwell. You can send me a voice note. You can give me send me a WhatsApp text message or give me a ring. All on the main number which is 0344991000.

[01:03:35]So much to discuss here on talk. Stay with us.

[01:03:48]Well, thank you to everybody who's been in touch about the Queen and Andrew. We will return to that story. Charlie Ray, who's the former royal editor of The Sun, will join us uh in a few minutes time. But I just want to read out a couple of messages just as we get the information coming through on Angela Rener. We'll get all the details and bring them to you in a second. Penny says, "Good evening, Peter." Good evening, Penny. The late Queen was an amazing monarch, but she helped to make Andrew the person he is, which is the very epitome of privilege and entitlement. Amanda says, "I wonder if release of the Andrew files was a convenient way to delay the Mandlesson files." Well, we know they're coming through in a few days time. Um, Simon Wstead says, "I cannot have our beautiful queen. May she rest in peace embroiled in any way with Randy Andy and his wrongness. She was his mother. I know you're not supposed to have favorites with your children, but he was hers and I was my mom's. Seriously, she st he stands on his own with this one.

[01:04:37]Great show, says Sim in onestead. Thank you for that. Um and uh yes, we have the information now about Reer embroiled in election fraud. This is the former deputy prime minister Angela Rener. She is a potential contender for the Labor leadership. Uh we know that Andy Burnham who's standing in Meerfield in the bi-election which will be on the 18th of June is the Labor candidate. She is supporting him but if he doesn't make it she may well be one of the people and there will be others probably including W Streeting who will challenge the Prime Minister Kier Starmer. We'll see what happens in Makerfield. But this is the Telegraph now reporting and it's just been handed to me and uh we're going to speak to former Labor Minister Bill Raml in just a second but I'll read you what I have in front of me. Uh this is with the Telegraph reporting that the former deputy prime minister has denied involvement after the police have arrested five people over claims that a fake independent candidates were entered in the pool. Um this is four men and a woman all aged between 23 and 47 arrested on Thursday morning on suspicion of conspiracy to defraud. That is Greater Manchester police saying that it comes amid claims that fake independent candidates were entered on the ballot for Tamside Burough Council in the heart of Miss Rainer's constituency of action underline to split votes for opposition parties. The alleged plot was reportedly carried out by people associated with Tamside Labor Group. One discussion is said to have taken place in Angela Rener's kitchen.

[01:05:59]Labor candidate Atlas, the former vice chairman of the Ashton underlying labor branch, was elected after beating the second place candidate Ahmed Mehmood, an independent by 177 votes. The two alleged fake candidates received 291 votes between them. And uh the alleged plot took place at the heart of Miss Rainer's constituency of Ashton under lime. The Telegraph is reporting it understands the former deputy prime minister says the developments have nothing to do with her and any suggestion she has been involved in or aware of any alleged wrongdoing is baseless. Uh but this is certainly something which has caused an awful lot of consternation. Uh fake candidates allegedly discussed on WhatsApp groups that the police are now looking for.

[01:06:40]spokesman for Greater Manchester Police saying this morning officers in Tempsside arrested five people on suspicion of conspiracy to defraud as part of an investigation into alleged offenses committed leading up to the local elections. In the days leading up to and following the election on the 7th of May, we received reports surrounding concerns about Canada's within the St. Peter's ward following initial inquiries last week. We've launched a full and gas investigation into the uh into the allegations and the Telegraph understands that Labor is not aware that any of the individuals arrested are actually party figures and the Labor Party themselves say no evidence has been presented of any Labor party involved in these allegations. We categorically reject any suggestion that the party was involved. The local Labor team is focused on what really matters, delivering for residents and protecting services, not playing political games.

[01:07:23]We are unable to provide any further comment while police inquiries are underway. Bill Raml is with me now, the former Labor minister. Bill, I'm sure you do not want to and nor do I want to prejudice an active police investigation. Angela Rener says that she has nothing to do with this, but certainly there are allegations that she has something to do with this. So, what is your uh reaction to it?

[01:07:45]>> Well, I've just heard about this, so I can't comment in detail. What I would say is that um you know uh pretending to be an independent candidate in order to split uh the opposition vote is a very very serious offense. It's not unprecedented in British politics. I remember in the 1990s where someone in the southwest stood as a quote literal Democrat and took about 5,000 votes in order to stop the Liberal Democrats being elected. Um but nevertheless it is very very serious um that there is no evidence uh that the Labour Party is involved in this or or Angela Rainer is involved in it but the police need to investigate it to get to the bottom of it and throw the kitchen sink at whoever has done this because it's a corruption of electoral politics.

[01:08:35]>> Speaking of those previous uh times that you're aware of and that's really interesting to get the context of that literal Democrats rather than the liberal Democrats. Are there other instances you've heard of where people have, you know, maybe a similar name or or as in their their first or second name is the similar name or in terms of the order of candidates? I mean, how does this kind of work when it is done previous? Not talking about the specific case, but perhaps you have more detail or or more experience of of of knowing about when this has happened previously.

[01:09:04]It's a very interesting thing that I think a lot of a lot of people or viewers and listeners may not know about. So, any more information or experience you have, I'd be really interested to hear it. Well, I've I've not got uh a great deal of detail, but when this story was put to me literally two or three minutes ago, that story in the southwest um and it and it was electoral fraud came to mind and it was someone who wanted to stop the Lib Dems from winning and stood as a literal Democrat, you know, and and and under electoral law, you're entitled to do that. We can see what they're up to.

[01:09:43]>> Yeah, absolutely. And it siphoned off about 3,000 votes and that stopped and and when you looked at the figures that stopped the Lib Dems from from winning.

[01:09:52]Um so, you know, I'm not exonerating this any any way, shape or form. I I I think it's repugnant. Uh it's an attempt to corrupt politics and I welcome the fact that the police are have arrested people and are investigating.

[01:10:07]>> Really useful context there, Bill. I really appreciate that and I know you're just reacting to this as it's almost literally being put into my hand. So, I really appreciate that. In Makerfield, we know that nominations close on Tuesday. The Green candidate didn't even last a day with Drew. We know there's a Restore Britain candidate called uh Rebecca Sheepard. We know that there the Labor candidate is of course Andy Bham, the mayor of Greater Manchester. We know that Robert Kenyon is controversial to some degree as the Reform UK candidate.

[01:10:36]This is just an ongoing bi-election. The Can you see Kier Starmer campaigning in that constituency?

[01:10:43]>> Well, K has said that I mean one K has said that he's going to support the Labour candidate and that's now Andy Bernham and K has said that he's going to go to the constituency. Look, you know, I remember talking to you over a week ago and saying that, you know, I regret the fact that where we are, but I think Kier's position is untenable. um his rit doesn't run throughout the government and I think there does need to be a leadership contest. Now my personal preference would be wed streeting um but Andy is a very credible contender but he's got a big big challenge to win this bi-election. Now I think there are strong indicators you know if you believe the book makers and they're often the most accurate predictors um of what will happen in in elections you know Andy Burnham is two to one on reformer 2 to one against uh the Greens are in disarray Caroline Lucas has urged people effectively to vote for Andy Bernham um it's going to be a big challenge but I think given track record in the local area where he's got strong links. I think there's a very strong chance um that he can win.

[01:11:58]And if he does, I was looking at a poll yesterday uh from Moore in Common, reputable pollster that said if Andy Bernham was prime minister, what would which way would you vote at the general election? And for the first time in 18 months, Labour was ahead uh and clearly ahead of reform.

[01:12:15]>> Well, you're absolutely right, and I take nothing away from that, but there are obviously a heck of a lot of whatifs until we get to to that that situation.

[01:12:21]It's interesting you mentioned Caroline Lucas there, the former leader of the Green Party, a vastly changed party of course in recent years. She is saying that, as you correctly said there, that the the Green should withdraw.

[01:12:31]Interestingly, Jacob Reese Moog advocated that the Conservatives withdraw as well to give Reform UK a clear run. The Conservatives, it would be a massive, I mean, you're climbing Everest to win that constituency. It's highly unlikely they would, but the former mayor of Wigan, Michael Win Stanley, is their candidate. And uh she said Cammy Bednock says he would make an excellent champion of the area having lived in worked in and represented the local area for years. We know that Alan Lloyd Lloyd Hope the Monster Raving Looney Party candidate is running as well which is somewhat inevitable. I got an email earlier tonight. I can't remember quite the details but I know there's someone who's going to be dressed as a fox who is standing as well because of animal rights and that is you often bi-elections get all sorts of people uh standing in them. I just want to talk a little bit about Rachel Reeves and what she has said in regard to people uh families going on holidays in summer attractions around the UK. She's fired 300 million quid at making people's uh reducing that from 20% to 5% on a lot of different attractions. This is what she told the House of Commons today.

[01:13:34]I can today announce a temporary cut in the rate of VAT on summer attractions from 20% to 5% over the summer holidays.

[01:13:46]>> This will apply to ticket prices for both adults and children covering attractions such as fairs, theme parks, zoos, and museums.

[01:13:55]>> It will include children's tickets for cinemas, concerts, soft play, and the theater. and it will cut the cost of children's meals in restaurants and cafes from 20% VAT to 5% as well.

[01:14:10]>> These changes will apply across the UK from the start of the Scottish school holidays on the 25th of June and run until the end of school holidays in England, Wales, and Northern Ireland on the 1st of September.

[01:14:24]>> What do you make of this policy? It will make some difference, a positive difference, I think. Bill, uh, but maybe not as big a difference as people need.

[01:14:32]What do you think?

[01:14:34]>> Well, look, you know, we we're in a very very difficult position, bluntly, because of uh Donald Trump's war uh in Iran. You know, before this, the first three months of this year, the UK had the fastest growing economy in the G7.

[01:14:48]But because of the closure of the straits of Hormuz there's a very strong headwind coming towards us and the government is trying to mitigate that.

[01:14:57]Now you know you can't absolve people from the economic reality of what's happening uh in the global economy but this is an attempt um and you know there's a range of measures um I I you know bluntly I welcome the fact that it's not reckless you know go back to the Ukraine war Liz Trump she spent 40 billion >> so what did I say >> you said Liz Trump that was a Freudian slip there was It really was, wasn't it? No. Liz Trush, he spent4 billion pounds, which is a colossal sum of money unfunded, subsidizing people's energy bills, and that said the sent the economy into a nose dive.

[01:15:42]>> Wasn't the only thing that did, but was certainly one of the the the cocktail the cocktail of ridiculousness that Liz Truss presided over when she crashed the economy. I know there are going to be loads of people sitting at home saying, "Peter, you're talking nonsense." That is a fact. That happened. Bill, please continue.

[01:15:57]>> It did absolutely and I think it's right that we don't mirror that. Uh but this is a proportionate set of measures to try and help people in the circumstances. So for example, you know, it's the first time in 15 years that the tax-free mileage am allowance for people who work for themselves has been increased by 10 p. We saw the continued freeze uh in fuel duty. Um there's, you know, the support for young people, there's a reduction in VAT, um in summer visits, all of it is welcome. Um but you know, the the the thing that's really need is is is an end to the conflict in Iran, get the oil flowing through the straits of Hormuz to head off these economic headwinds.

[01:16:48]>> Bill, thank you. Really interesting to talk to you as always. Bill Raml there, former uh government minister there.

[01:16:54]Let's speak to Matt and Cheshure who's given me a ring on 03444991000.

[01:16:58]Matt, I'll keep you on the right side of the law when it comes to these arrests and what are happening. So, just just be a little bit patient with me if if if we need to because there have been some arrests earlier, but I know this Rainer story is something you want to talk about.

[01:17:11]>> Yeah. Um I I'll premise everything with the word allegedly.

[01:17:15]>> Good idea.

[01:17:15]>> Um >> a friend of mine was one of the people that reported these incidents to the police.

[01:17:23]>> Okay. And apparently Labour were putting out um independent candidates who were people that had been affiliated with them in the past.

[01:17:36]>> Interesting. Okay.

[01:17:38]>> Because then >> I should say that Labor deni Labor deny that but do continue Matt.

[01:17:43]>> Yeah. Um obviously they were people who were affiliated with them previously knowing their name was Mud, >> right? They attempted to put people out under the sort of premise that they were sort of stealth independents, if you like.

[01:17:59]>> Okay.

[01:17:59]>> I was I was told about this weeks ago.

[01:18:02]>> Yeah. Do you know what, Matt? I'm just I'm just a wee bit nervous about the fact there is a police investigation ongoing about this and I I'm just going to stop the call now. Not just because you're, you know, you're a brilliant contributor. I always like to hear from you, but I just I just I just want to be I just want to be really careful. I don't want to get you or me or the station in trouble here, but um can I ask you can I ask you just more more broadly maybe Matt um about I mean Angela Reena obviously denies she has any involvement in this but you have great views and really thoughtful views on the Labor party. I mean do you think that this Makerfield bi-election is going to be won by Andy Burnham? What do you think?

[01:18:39]>> I got the uh Denton and um Gorton bi-election wrong but I didn't know the demographics of the area. You see, I thought the reform would win that. Um, judging off >> what people of Wigan have been through, probably similar to my area, it's probably a similar sort of makeup as my area.

[01:18:59]>> Okay.

[01:19:00]>> I I would think that Labour could put anybody in that seat and I think that they've just had enough. And >> I don't really think, you know, >> Bernard is popular though, Matt.

[01:19:14]>> Yeah. But remember, he's been the mayor of Greater Manchester while all this decline and decay has been happening simultaneously. So >> he he he basically is a scalp to be taken and we can all move on from this into a a brighter, better future and leave them all in in in the past.

[01:19:33]>> We'll see what happens. Matt, listen, thank you and thanks for your understanding as well. I just want to keep us all absolutely on the right side of the law here and it is a live show and we need to be careful about all that. Matt's a great caller. He always has common sense. I'm always happy to take them on the air, but I just want to be really careful about all of that because I don't want to I don't want to pre prejudice any um action that may or may not happen. Um thank you to lots of people who've been involved in in in touch actually John and Hinckley. A bit of a long um message but a good one where he says great shows ever. Thank you. I'm very concerned about the incident in Goldish Green that you mentioned earlier on in your program.

[01:20:05]Your source raised on the fact that the suspect who was arrested today was carrying only an air weapon in inverted commas. As a member of a legitimate licensed amateur air weapons club back in my late teens, we were taught not only about the responsibility of possessing an air weapon but their capability. Air weapon capability is measured in kinetic muzzle energy and the standard is foot pounds and any air rifle that exceeds 12 footbs is classified a firearm under the firearms act. Any air pistol exceeding 6 footb is also considered a prohibited weapon.

[01:20:34]Thank you for this, John. I'm learning an awful lot. However, this is academic.

[01:20:37]Any air rifle or air pistol that is below the footpoint limit can be harmful. Whilst air weapons normally use a lead convex flat head pellet, which can penetrate skin at a short to point blank range, people can be blinded.

[01:20:49]There's also air weapon ammunition classes shabot rounds, sabot rounds, sabo, sorry. Sabo rounds uh after the French turn and the technology is deployed in tank warer armament which are hardened rounds designed to penetrate skin and bone normally for shooting game or vermin and can also kill a human at a range where penetration penetration can uh reach the heart or brain. Air weapons are not just air weapons. John, fascinating and thank you for that. I really appreciate that.

[01:21:15]Sean in Cardiff says, "The ticket saving scheme from Rachel and accounts is laughable. Haven't MPs been getting free theater and football tickets for the last number of years." Yes, they certainly have. Um, thank you to Keith in Nottingham who says, "With tax in the UK so high, the wealth creators are taking their money with them and as figures show young people are following them to take up careers abroad." Martin Allen in New York and Trent says, "Evening Peter, Israel and the treatment of prisoners. Please remember when some of these people sat on buses and other vehicles and places and blew innocent people up and this has happened not just in Israel but in the rest of the world including the UK. Martin I I know exactly what you mean and I just don't want any prisoner anywhere to be treated badly and Daniel in Israel has been in touch as well. He says I'm a Britishborn Israeli living in Israel for 44 years and I just want to make clear that Ben Kavir does not represent the vast majority of Israelis. This is the Israeli government minister part of the coalition that Benjamin Netanyah who had to put together to retain power. He is someone who has been laughing at, taunting at and uh putting out videos of people on this flutilla, this Gaza flotilla. I don't support the flotillaa.

[01:22:14]I think it's a really stupid idea. But at the same time, if people are bound and you know being prisoners, you shouldn't be taunting them or being horrible to them. You should be treating them with respect. Daniel continues, he has an extreme far-right fascist Benavir who only serves as a minister so that Benjamin Netanyahu can stay in power and do everything he can to avoid going to jail. 90% of Israelis are disgusted with his behavior. And you will see this all for yourselves in a few months when we kick these people out of government in election day. We fully back our government in its war against the Islamic terrorists uh that want all of us dead. But we do not want people like Ben Gavir as part of that government, says Daniel in Israel. Daniel has a great message and thank you for it and I really appreciate that. And doesn't it just show yet again that you can disagree with your government, you can disagree with what people in your government do and it's fine because Israel is a democracy. Hamas doesn't allow people to do that. It kills them when they disagree with Hamas. And that is what they do to their own people, the Palestinian people. I want to free Palestine from Hamas. I'm not sure lots of other pro Palestinians do to be brutally honest. Ben Gavir, horrible man, despicable behavior. I think we can totally condemn it as does Daniel. Uh and and no, no qualification on that whatsoever. We're going to talk about this later in the program as well. Um what is Labour's obsession with theme parks? Says this person. They talk about them in a weird tone. Reeves sounds as if she's read a pre-written load of noise she doesn't actually understand.

[01:23:33]Really weird. Sharon says, "I love your show, but your jokes are rubbish. Uh, she didn't get the um egg joke." Well, maybe if you got the joke, you you'd realize the jokes are brilliant. Uh, Penny says, "I love the egg joke. Great program, the best on talk." I think I'll go with Penny, Sharon, even though I very much appreciate your message, and I did explain the joke earlier, and I probably won't do so again, otherwise I'll probably just be taken off the air.

[01:23:53]Right. We're going to talk about the Prince Andrew Files in a second with Charlie Ray, the former royal editor at The Sun. Um and we will also take your calls, texts, tweets and messages. So do get in touch 0344991000.

[01:25:23]Some breaking news this morning revealing revealed that under the terrorist act 242 people were arrested in the year to June of this year.

[01:25:31]Something you can indulge in as to all the people who aren't going to prison because well there's no prison spaces.

[01:25:38]>> So this is a talk exclusive we've been looking at. I said you take these cuffs off me and speak to me like a human being rather than a a common criminal.

[01:25:47]You're just left wondering, does these people who lead us actually hate Britain? Do they do they not love our country and everything that we've stood for?

[01:26:10]Hey, hey, hey.

[01:26:57]across the UK on DAV+ on your smart speaker on your smart TV and on your mind. This is talk.

[01:27:12]>> Karen has been in touch. He says, "An arrest alone doesn't prohibit prohibit you from talking about it." Well, that's partially true. He also says, "Please stop being so cautious. You can discuss all around the subject till your heart's content. It's only when there's a charge you must not discuss any further. You sound like a BBC person. Stop being afraid to discuss it." Karen, that's not quite the case. Proceedings are active from the moment of arrest. So, you do need to be cautious about this. I had a long discussion with our lawyer behind the scenes, very very good lawyer called Lucy about all of this because uh there is a tendency and you're far less likely to prejudice a a a legal process before uh charge is brought and before someone is charged. So I I totally get where you're coming from Kieran, but if I have a caller who's introducing new speculation and evidence potentially about this, I need to safeguard him. I need to safeguard me. I need to safeguard the channel. So I'm going to make no apology for doing that. I do totally understand that the likelihood of prejudicing a case is far less likely before charges are brought. But you can't just say anything you want about it. That is a popular misconception.

[01:28:15]Legal lecture over Kieran. Uh but listen, thank you for your message. I do appreciate it. Lots to discuss in all of this and uh we're going to talk now actually about the Prince Andrew files.

[01:28:26]Charlie Ray is with us, the former royal editor at the Sun. Charlie, great to have you on the program. What did we actually learn today? And I wonder a little bit about whether we're actually slightly re-evaluating the legacy of Queen Elizabeth II, who so many people see as a pretty sainted figure.

[01:28:42]>> Well, yes, you're absolutely right. And the the papers that have been released today, the transfer papers that have been released today by the government uh slightly tarnish that reputation uh of the queen. And what we what the situation is that the Duke of Kent was the trade envoy and he was he's he was due to leave and Andrew was put forward by the queen and she made it clear to government officials that she wished for Andrew to take over the role and it was it it would come about at the time when Andrew was about to leave the Royal Navy uh so he would have a job to go to and there's no doubt about it that she pushed for Andrew to be to be to become that job.

[01:29:31]Um, and he was then described as a natural fit for the job. Now, but the point is that no one in government thought it good enough or fit enough to have a vetting procedure for Andrew because it's another member of the royal family. Well, we'll give him the job and that'll be fine. Um but the officials did actually say that Andrew shouldn't be offered trips um uh on taxpayers money uh which involved golfing trips.

[01:30:01]So that they were quite keen on him not just using it as a a giant playing golf around the world. Um and but no one else but Andrew was considered for the job.

[01:30:11]So, I suspect we're going to get the usual suspects who criticize the monarchy will be jumping up and down again uh criticizing the monarchy. But this this all happened a long time ago.

[01:30:24]Um I'm not suggesting that the queen was correct in doing it. Um it it's not going to look good for the royal family.

[01:30:31]>> I wonder about the queen in later life as well. She was clearly very mentally sharp basically until the end. Well, essentially until until the end. I mean, she met and and kissed hands with Liz Truss just a couple of days before she died. She must have feared what may come out after her death in regard to Andrew.

[01:30:50]She must have known files like this would have been released uh in the fullness of time after her death.

[01:30:57]>> Well, it's hard to say whether she would actually uh know that these particular files >> Well, sure. Sure. would would actually would actually come out. But clearly by the time that she was on, you know, on the way out, uh that we'd had the Epstein scandal that it was already brewing. So she was quite well aware of what was what was going on and the involvement if any even though he he denies all the allegations that we made against him of the involvement of her own son with Epstein, a convicted pedophile. So, I I suspect that the last few few days of her life, she may have thought that um I'm I'm better off out of it now. I don't know what's going to happen because everything else that came out after him after her death.

[01:31:46]>> I I wonder if the queen I don't I want to be really respectful to Queen Elizabeth II, who I want to be absolutely clear I thought was a brilliant monarch in many many ways. She was a kind of mother of the nation, grandmother of the nation, and held us all together. And and it's actually, let me phrase the question correctly here, Charlie. I wonder if she was the kind of fire break. I wonder if she was a little bit, there was a lot of this criticism of Andrew, obviously, and the newsight interview and all the rest of it happened before she died, but since she has died, that has just gone up to a much greater level. We know the Epstein files are out. We know Gillian Maxwell has been convicted and all the rest of it. But I wonder in terms of criticism of the royal family and particularly criticism of Andrew whether the queen was a sort of firebreak. We didn't want to go as far as some people had gone because we didn't want to disrespect or annoy this person who'd given so much to our nation. And now it's Charles and Camila who I think are great people too.

[01:32:42]I think they've given a lot to this nation as well. But it's not quite the same, is it?

[01:32:46]>> No, it's not. And I and I agree with everything you've just you've just said.

[01:32:50]Um, but as I as I say, you know, this is a woman who is a remarkable diplomat who was a remarkable mother of the nation and we've now got for the very first time something that has tainted that reputation. I don't think it's going to cause her reputation to be tarnished greatly, but it's not going to look good for the next few days with these documents that have come out.

[01:33:12]>> She was very, very good at protecting the firm, wasn't she? But did she have a blind spot when it came to Andre? And why do you think that was?

[01:33:21]>> Well, everybody keeps on saying, although I've never been able to establish whether this was actually a fact, that Andrew was her favorite son.

[01:33:29]>> We've heard that a lot, haven't we?

[01:33:30]Yeah, >> we've heard that a lot. And you got to remember that in effect she had there were two families. There were Charles and Andrew and and Anne Born first of all prior to her becoming queen. Then Andrew and Edward were then born. So, you've got these two different sets uh coming up. And I I suspect as well that she spent a a little bit more time with the the younger Andrew and Edward than she did with the younger Charles and an >> Well, she she missed Charles's first three Christmases, didn't she?

[01:34:02]>> Right. Yeah. That that Yeah. All this is quite well documented. Yeah. So that there was there was I I suspect a little bit of favoritism particularly with Andrew and Edward, but Andrew in particular. Um and I think she wanted to make sure that he was the spare at one time for for a long long long time. And so she wanted to make sure that he had some sort of role in life and this trade envoy suited him. Uh and that's why she pushed for it. We also have to remember yes she was the monarch. She was the mother of the nation, but she was also the mother of a family. And you know what mothers are like? They tend to protect their their their children.

[01:34:43]>> C- certainly. But we we don't have the same kind of entitlement from Charles, for example, or Edward actually. I mean, Edward and Sophie are fantastic. They're they're great people. They do I love Sophie Wessex or the Duchess of Edinburgh as she now is. She does loads of really really good work. She does loads of she has lots of very kind of forgotten causes that she uh that she talks about and that she does charity work for. The character, it seems to me anyway, and we don't really know these people. You know them far better than I do, Charlie, but the the the character of Edward and Charles is very different from the pompous entitlement of Andrew.

[01:35:17]>> Yes, you're abs you're absolutely right.

[01:35:19]And no one can explain why Andrew turned out the way he is. He's he's a very arrogant man, unlike the his siblings.

[01:35:29]Um and and it's hard to explain what how he fits in or how he fitted in to all this.

[01:35:35]>> Yeah, Charlie, fascinating to talk to you and thank you for joining us. Sorry, you were you something else to say there, Charlie or?

[01:35:41]>> No, no, no. I'm just saying thank you.

[01:35:43]>> Oh, great. Okay. Well, lovely to talk to talk to you. No doubt we'll talk again soon. Charlie Ray there, the former royal editor of the Sun on the Prince Andrew files. What do you make of this?

[01:35:51]0344991000.

[01:35:53]Text here and remember with text is 872 with the word talk into your text.

[01:35:56]Someone says, "Why was Andrew the Queen sphere it when he was such a delinquent?" Um, Dan and Kent uh talking about Israel says, "Daniel from Israel is the reality of the Middle East. It's a democracy in a barbaric world. It's Bruno versus Tyson in a modern world."

[01:36:09]Uh, and uh, thank you for that, Dan.

[01:36:11]Appreciate that. And Steve has been in touch on a much lighter note, saying, "Anyone who doesn't get Peter's jokes are missing the point. His humor is self-deprecating, and I'm sure he'll agree that there are people much better at it than him." Very good, Steve. Very clever. Um, thank you for that. Uh we'll take some of your calls, text tweets, and voice notes next here on Talk. And we'll also be talking in just a few minutes time about another very important matter. This is to do with hospital records. And we're being told, oh, digital ID is fine and there's no issue and everything's all right.

[01:36:41]Medical information can all be in one place. Well, both the Nottingham at uh victims of Valdo Calakane, that absolute scumbag who killed three people, murdered three people, had uh those three people's medical records were accessed by staff who've now been sacked correctly. And the victims of Southport as well had their medical record records accessed and nobody lost their job over that. Outrageous that that happened. So, in a world where we're being told in a country, we're being told, "Well, you don't need to worry about your medical records. You don't need to worry about digital ID. all's fine. Who actually has access to that and should we worry about that? And give me a ring about that.

[01:37:17]We're going to talk about it in a second with uh the founder of Freedom Watch GB.

[01:37:21]And we'll take your calls, text, tweets, and voice notes on on anything you want to talk about as well right throughout the program and in just a few minutes time. Stay with us.

[01:38:55]across the UK on DAB+ on your smart speaker on your smart TV and on your side. This is talk Thank you to everybody who has been in touch, including Amelia in Birmingham.

[01:39:13]She's given me a ring on 0344991000.

[01:39:16]Amelia, you're very welcome to the program. What would you like to say? I think Rachel Reeves is on your mind. And I understand you're the first time caller, so you're especially welcome.

[01:39:25]>> Yeah. Um, I just want to Sorry, what was your name?

[01:39:28]>> Peter.

[01:39:30]>> Hey, Peter. Yeah. Um, about this whole Rachel Reeves thing. She was right to get heckled because labor are ruining this country and they're not very patriotic. They're just betraying like what they were voted in for. Do you do you not agree?

[01:39:46]>> Do you think it's okay for someone to shout uh obscenities and to attack the verbally attack anyway the chancellor of the exjecker? Could they not make their point in a more polite way?

[01:39:58]>> Well, that's the thing. I understand why he said what he said and I agree it wasn't in the most professional way but I understand his anger because >> I I totally understand his anger too.

[01:40:10]There's a lot of anger towards this government. Do you do you feel angry towards this government, Amelia?

[01:40:15]>> Yeah, I do.

[01:40:16]>> And why is that?

[01:40:18]>> Because they just keep betraying us.

[01:40:20]They keep putting other people first when they should be putting British people first. They're just like putting us to the back of the queue and let in letting in undocumented men.

[01:40:30]>> Although we know today the level of migration has gone down to 171,000.

[01:40:36]That's a lot lower than it has been in recent years.

[01:40:39]>> No, but the lie.

[01:40:41]>> Well, those are the official figures.

[01:40:44]>> They lie. They twist the figures to like make them seem like they're doing a good job when really they're not. And then this is why this country feels very unsafe at the minute cuz the government they do not care. But why that guy said what he said. He said what a lot of us were thinking. But that's the only way like you can get these people to listen.

[01:41:03]There's no like going online cuz then they don't care. They don't listen. They don't actually talk to the public. They just think all is well and good. But they're not. They're just betraying us every day. These people are in government.

[01:41:16]>> Okay. Amelia, thanks for your call. Do give me another ring on another occasion. Andy's been in touch on Twitter and says Rachel out of touch.

[01:41:22]Yes, perhaps when she berated white van man. She should have remembered the British manners are somewhat lacking in the House of Commons on Wednesday at Prime Minister's questions. Lenny says I believe Burnham is an easy target so it can be a liability. Again, we are a desperate country because of disastrous policies by labor. Laura Jane is in Hampshire who wants to talk about uh Rachel Reeves on the policy that she's announced today reducing the level of VAT on uh those holiday attractions. Do you think this is a good thing, Laura JM?

[01:41:52]>> Well, obviously it's a nice thing, but it's to me it seems like one big bribery. Um, you know, be nice to everyone over the summer and they'll feel good about us. I really feel it's almost an embarrassing bribe. And I feel sorry for I mean the children who are free on the buses anyway. I feel sorry for the 16 year olds because during the holidays they'll still have to pay. In certain cities over 15s do have to pay.

[01:42:22]Um and I I think it's uh you know they have enough trouble in the holidays finding things to do. But uh I actually think it's at one big bribery Peter. I really do.

[01:42:35]>> I mean Jeff has been in touch on Twitter and says what's to stop the cinemas, museums, etc. simply keeping prices to the families the same and keeping the VAT dividend to help pay the national insurance insurance increases. I mean in theory there's nothing to stop them doing that actually.

[01:42:50]>> I agree. Um it you know on paper it look it looks like sorry that's rather an old-fashioned expression on paper um it feels it feels like one big bribe though. Um and a lot you know there are some museums which are free anyway. So you know the whole thing the whole thing's just word salad you know it really is and it just makes me cross because you know some people will fall for it and think wow this looks amazing but it's just not the case. It really isn't.

[01:43:21]>> It's not a negative thing though Laura Jeene is it that people will pay less for these attractions thanks to the government. not a negative thing.

[01:43:30]Absolutely. And people deserve to be cheered up and it's it's pretty difficult for everyone. But I think it I still think that the the the the sort of feeling behind it is a bit of bribery and uh I don't like that. I really don't like >> Laura Jane. Listen, thanks for that really excellent point and uh thank you very much indeed. I suppose the question as well is do we need to go to theme parks and cinemas to entertain our kids?

[01:43:56]what happened to uh I don't know played with boxes as kids. Um I went out I suppose a lot of parents don't let their kids out these days. I went over fields and did all sorts of climbed trees and did all sorts of things that just don't seem to be part of a British child's u um childhood these days. Um we're going to talk in just a second and Nick Flat has been in touch on Twitter as well. He says, "I'm a retired consultant so I'm aware of the NHSIT restrictions and indeed flaws. Strictly speaking, you're not allowed to access your own medical records, but I frequently did, for example, measuring my own uh co antibbody um uh levels. So, listen, thanks for that. It's very interesting, of course, uh that this has come up because we're in an interesting period where 11 NHS staff have been sacked for accessing medical records of the Nottingham attack victims. These are the victims of Valdo Calane. And uh in just a second, we're going to speak to uh the founder of Freedom Watch GB about this.

[01:44:51]So stay with us here on talk.

[01:45:12]Everything.

[01:45:41]Heat. Hey, Heat.

[01:46:18]some breaking news this morning revealing revealed that under the terrorist act 242 people were arrested in the year to June of this year.

[01:46:26]something you can indulge in as to all the people who aren't going to prison because well there's no prison spaces.

[01:46:33]>> So this is a talk exclusive we've been looking at. I said you take these cuffs off me and speak to me like a human being rather than a a common criminal.

[01:46:42]>> You're just left wondering does these people who lead us actually hate Britain? Do they do they not love our country and everything that we've stood for?

[01:46:53]Heat. Heat.

[01:47:24]across the UK on DAB+ on your smart speaker on your smart TV and on your side. This is talk.

[01:47:40]really interesting message from Alisa in Chsford who is someone who contributes to the show pretty often as a regular texter and she uh sent me this message.

[01:47:48]Morning Peter. I went to a new NHS dentist this morning. As I sat there I saw everyone looking at their phones and I briefly said, "I'm just looking at us all staring at our phones and I remember the days when we would strike up a conversation. Would anyone like to have a conversation with me?" said Alisa. All bar one reacted with a smile. One lady said, "What would you like to talk about?" In true British tradition, I spoke about the weather and the heat coming our way this weekend and that was it. Suddenly, all bar one put their phones away and we conversed together. I just thought you'd appreciate me sharing this with you. Could it be a topic for discussion on your program? I mean, it's part of the reason for decline in standards these days, talking to one another. Crazy. Someone should should set up some sort of TV or radio session so people can do that with one another and we can keep our community going. Uh David in the Coswell says, "Evening Peter. When Rener started her torrent of scum abuse, Starmer called everyone far-right nationalist. What did Reeves expect a working man to do when he saw her trying to make a photo op? Says David in the CWs. Very interesting message there, David. Thank you. Ernie says, "I think Laura Jeene is right. Do you think Rachel would have cut the VAT if there wasn't an upcoming bi-election?

[01:48:50]No chance," says Ernie. Tim and Bedford says, "It's the English leaving that make the immigration figures look better," says Tim. And uh John in Lincolnshire says all this hoo-ha about who the next prime minister is and yet we don't know the most important thing about the candidates. Are they a cat person and how will they get on with Larry? Well, if Larry was at 19, the cat at Downing Street very recently, I think someone should write a book about it.

[01:49:13]Maybe they could call it political animals, right? Then let's talk about this really worrying development. This is this is just on and on it goes. We remember a few months ago the Afghanistan people who helped us there.

[01:49:25]their details were put in the public domain. It's a massive data breach there. Now we had the uh yesterday we had the information about those three little girls and other victims of the horrendous Southport attack by that scumbag Axel Read Kubana the murderer.

[01:49:40]He uh they were in hospital. Of course there are many people who were being treated in hospital and there were medical records that were accessed by medical quote unquote professionals who shouldn't have done that. No one no one in that case lost their job. Now today Nottingham victims of Valdo Calakane who murdered three people their medical records were accessed and 11 people were sacked because of that. So when we're in a country where it says where the government is saying well trust us with your information the NHS says trust us with your information. Should we actually Montgomery Toms is with me now who is to the founder of Freedom Watch GB. Montgomery thank you for joining me this evening. And what do you make of all this?

[01:50:22]>> Yeah. Well, it's everything that uh I myself and many other people have been talking about. When you centralize information, it automatically becomes vulnerable. Uh digital ID, just to you know, just get straight into it, is a massive threat to the British public.

[01:50:40]And it's not just medical records, it's where you go, what you do. You know, the the risk is pretty endless actually when it comes to your information being centralized. You you al already mentioned the uh Afghan data leak there.

[01:50:53]I mean that's a massive cause for for concern and obviously the story that we're talking about now is a massive cause for concern. We've got uh the gov.uk wallet essentially using our veterans as guinea pigs to uh bring forward digital veteran cards which is going to have all sorts of personal information on it such as where they serve etc. So we don't need a digital ID. Obviously they you uturned on it as they said which they didn't. You know they're bringing out digital ID regardless and whether there's a mandated aspect or not is kind of irrelevant in the same way if I go to Oxford Street these days in the West End most shops don't accept cash meaning private venues are excluding people and saying that they have to have an online um card rather than an offline alternative. And my position is really clear. We need to have the right to live offline and even if we have the right to live offline, we need to be able to do it in a very convenient way.

[01:51:48]>> How realistic is that though? How realistic is it that I mean there are some people who use cash a lot? Uh there aren't many people who aren't online.

[01:51:56]There are about 3 million people in this country who don't have access to the internet at home but everybody does in libraries for example for free or a very low cost for example. I mean the world is moving online and many people completely straightforwardly and with their knowledge surrender their privacy to a lot of different companies. Isn't that just the price we pay for the convenience of online?

[01:52:19]>> Yeah. I mean of course you you you we live in a digital age right and that's something that we should opt to go into. We should have the choice. In Britain we don't believe in a papers please society and we believe in this thing called liberty and freedom. Now with you know Stararma the Labor government and even the Tories that seems to be a bit pie in the sky these days but I fundamentally believe in in the right to live offline and it's not pie in the sky. I use cash but if I want to use a card I should have the choice to do that and I don't see why it's so complicated. I ask the question what's the motivation to centralize our information? Why is the government so obsessed with a digital ID? Why is Tony Blair in the ear of the Labor government to this day? Winston Churchill abolished ID cards after the war. Tony Blair attempted to bring them back in in in the naughties. We then said no. And it's time for that hat trick. It's time to say no, we don't want our information centralized. We're seeing too much evidence of hacks, of data breaches, or just people snooping. So, we want the right to live offline. It should be it should just be basic. And >> I I totally get where you're coming from and I have a lot of sympathy with your argument. But you can't go back, can you? You can't say that actually we're going to live. I mean, how many people actually live offline? How many people don't have their information in somewhere stored by a company? I mean, we're talking about governments, and that's a big issue. And metadata, putting the data together, I don't want my GP knowing what my uh purchases are in in my local supermarket who will then tell me you eat too much chocolate or you drink too much diet coke or whatever. Both of those things are true, by the way. But nonetheless, the point is that the kind of offline life, the kind of almost off-grid life that you're perhaps pointing towards, it's unrealistic for most people, is it not?

[01:54:02]>> Well, well, I actually I sort of beg to differ. And obviously, I'm about to talk about a minority here. But you've got elderly people. If you even mention the notion of a digital ID to my nan, she'll just look look at me utterly beused. My nan use cash for everything. You're excluding elderly people there. there's homeless people on the streets that rely on on a physical currency and rely on >> and all all of that's absolutely true and I have members of my family who would be in much the same position as your nan who who can just about use a smartphone. Um but the point is that that is something that I mean the the march of technology is meaning that people are voluntarily surrendering their privacy in lots of different ways.

[01:54:41]I'm not saying that's necessarily a good thing. I'm just saying it's happening and the government is saying, "Well, lots of people have done this. It's not a big issue for most of them. We're going to put this data together and have a digital ID."

[01:54:51]>> Yeah. Well, it's it's a case of principle, right? This is why I believe in having a digital bill of rights, which ring fences our fundamental freedoms. As I say, I'm saying that if you want to have, you know, go ahead and live online, you're well within your right to I do. You know, look, I'm on social media. I have a bank account.

[01:55:08]That's fine.

[01:55:09]>> You're using Zoom right now.

[01:55:10]>> Using Zoom right now. That's that's very true. Where I really fundamentally draw a line is the case of principle around a digital ID. And I'll just quickly just just build on the motivations here because let's be real, I don't think anyone really trusts the the government.

[01:55:25]I mean, yeah, I couldn't couldn't even imagine the stat on that, but I there's a sort of 95% lack of trust in this country. So, would you trust the government with your data? The answer is most likely no. But then if we expand on that, let's look at a broader picture here, which is things like facial recognition being rolled out up and down Great Britain. You've got one login, which is forcing company directors to basically lose your company unless you sign up to the first form of digital ID, which is one login. You've got some kind of a structure and form of a social credit system kind of on the horizon, much like they have in in China, where you're sort of pleased based on your behavior. So >> we're not moving to social credit, are we? I mean, that that is that's tinfoil hat stuff. I don't think it is Tim Hat stuff. I mean, you've already got carbon credits being tracked kind of pretty much on most devices. You go and buy a sandwich from M&S these days and they're telling you how much carbon you use.

[01:56:15]>> Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, they may well be doing that, but that's on M&S. That's not on me saying, "Right, if I buy a ham sandwich that is produced in the UK, that is better than, I don't know, a sandwich that was imported from New Zealand because or is New Zealand lamb in it and you're a better or worse person and you're entitled to more or fewer things." I mean that that that slippery slope argument just isn't true, is it?

[01:56:36]>> Well, I disagree. I beg to differ. I think it is very much true. Where's your evidence?

[01:56:40]>> What's my evidence? Well, well, the fact that we're we're Okay, so if we have a look at the Chinese model, we'll go for a really basic example. Um, is you jaywalk in China. Obviously, I know we don't have jaywalking laws in England, but I'm just using as a as an example, right? You jaywalk in China, your face gets displayed, your social credit score goes down, and maybe you can't access something from a vending machine. Well, look, we've got this so-called climate crisis, which I don't buy into the man-made climate change narrative at all, where they're turning around and saying, you know, we've got to essentially lower our personal carbon footprints. Do you really think it's pie in the sky for our authoritarian government not to turn around to us and say to meet net zero targets, you're only allowed to have one flight per year?

[01:57:16]>> That is not going to happen. That is you have no evidence to suggest that's going to happen. You're saying you're saying you don't want it to happen. And I get that. I don't want it to happen either, but there's no evidence that it will happen.

[01:57:27]>> Okay. Okay. So, let's take let's take your premise to say there's zero evidence, right? And would you not feel that it's worth ringing fencing that so it doesn't happen and to at least get the security from our very authoritarian anti- free speech, anti- freedom, anti-liberty government. They don't basically turn around and say, do you know what? We're going to protect your right to live offline. We're not interested in surveilling you. We don't need to roll out facial recognition and treat you like walking barcodes and criminals all the time. We're just going to let you be an individual, let you be free, and make sure that the relationship between the state and the individual behaves as one of simply you're an individual and we respect your right to privacy. And I think that's as far as it goes.

[01:58:04]>> We're just coming up to the news, so I just have one more question. Um, I mean, facial recognition solves crime, does it not? That is something that a lot of uh very good crime commentators in this program, including Mike Neville, who is not someone who I don't know if you know Mike, but he's not someone who, you know, wants to crack down on people's liberties. He says it solves crime. What is your concern about it?

[01:58:24]>> What crime? So, so I my concern is and I'll give you a personal example. I appreciate we've got not little much time so I'll be as quick as I can. Go for it. But there was a period in 2025 where I was demonstrating um a pride demo in London where I was wearing a plaqueard that stated that uh trans equals mental illness. That was a statement I made. I know that's a different conversation, but that was my right to free speech. I was arrested. I was detained and then I was banned from the city of Westminster. Now, if I was to enter Westminster, I would have been arrested again. The only one of the most fundamental ways they can catch you doing that is with facial recognition.

[01:58:58]So, I ask you more rhetorically because I say we're running out of time. Define what a crime is. And these days, obviously, non-rime hate incidents has sort of gone away. But we had that for a good amount of time. We got public order act as well. So, I ask you the question, what crimes are they policing? And I'm very concerned about how >> that in itself, that's a whole other argument which I'm very happy to discuss at some point in the future. Uh really interesting to talk to you uh Montgomery Montgomery Toms there of uh who has join just joined us there from Freedom Watch GB. What do you think of what he said there? I challenged him a bit but I agree with him on a lot of stuff. What do you think? 0344991000.

[01:59:35]Plenty of time for calls in the last hour here on talk.

[02:00:15]Heat. Heat.

[02:01:04]Hey, hey, hey.

[02:01:55]across the UK on DAB+ on your smart speaker on your smart TV and on your side. This is talk just got 9:00. Thank you for your company on the Evening Exchange. Loads to talk about, including some breaking news from the Telegraph newspaper. Labor is preparing a 1 billion pound stealth tax on family holidays. What about the one they give with one hand, they take away with the other? They've just given us 300 million quid for slightly cheaper attractions, taking the VAT off those attractions. And now HMRC officials drawing up plans to impose VAT of 20% on top of the fees that airports charge airlines to use their runways and terminals. Guess who that's going to be passed on to? You. We'll hear more about that from David Maddox, who is the political editor of the Independent, in just a second. I'll give you the story that's just been handed to me. It is a nice time to do a program for lots of reasons, but of course we get breaking news right throughout the evening. Lots of people getting in touch about migration, about digital ID, about those VAT cuts as well, about hospital records and all the rest of it. Loads to discuss. So, please do get in touch.

[02:03:09]0344991000 is the number to call. You can text me 872 with the word talk in your text. You can tweet me at talktv. Follow me at Peter Cardwell. You can send me a WhatsApp voice note. You can send me a WhatsApp text message or give me a ring all on the main number 0344991000.

[02:03:27]So much to discuss and a bit more time in the 9:00 hour to do so. So please do give me a shout on 03444991000.

[02:03:34]Plenty to talk about on the evening exchange before 10:00. Stay with us.

[02:03:47]Tony in Warrington's been in touch on the discussion I just had with Montgomery there. He says, uh, what evidence does he need with digital ID and facial recognition? There's a threat that the government could take it further. I don't want that risk. You will only have evidence when they abuse their power as they have done or tried to in many occasions over the past two years. Small state, keep out of our way.

[02:04:04]That's what Maggie said. I agree, says Tony and Warrington. Uh Allison says, "10 years ago, I spent a month in hospital and approximately six months later, I received a letter from the hospital. They said, "My medical records held on microfish and many other patients were found in an alleyway three miles from the hospital or so. The person who found them, took them to a local newspaper, so I have no trust that my information will be kept safe and private." David and Cadbury says about digital ID. I keep getting phone calls from scammers who know one of my two phone numbers and my car registration. I want to know where they getting where they get this data, especially my car registration. David, I have a great thing on my phone. I've just got a new phone. It's an old It's an old iPhone because I never buy new ones for complex reasons um due to Martin Lewis telling me never to get new ones. But anyway, um there's a thing on my phone which I've just discovered which is fantastic which if you don't know the person, if the person's number is not on your phone, you it says it says this is Apple or whatever. Um can you you know tell us who you are and then it comes up as a text message who the person is. So there's a Milwaukee number. I don't know anybody in Milwaukee. There's a Milwaukee number that rang me seven times today. Every time the phone said, "Who is this person? Peter's not going to pick it up until you uh tell us who that is." And I then blocked the number because it was clearly just a scam. You can also uh involve yourself and you can put your numbers on various uh various websites, government websites to uh well interesting in the context of this conversation, but certainly you can put yourself in a register of people who shouldn't be uh contacted by sort of junk calls essentially. I put all the all my I have two numbers. I put my numbers on those and I put my family's numbers on them some time ago and the calls did go down. Not entirely but went to a minimum. And I mean if you Google this stuff you will find it. So please do uh please do that. Um interestingly big story today of course the government very happy Rachel Reeves telling the houses of parliament about how it's all going to be wonderful this summer. Well it might not be. I'm going to give you some information that the Telegraph is reporting in just a second. But first have let's have a look at the chancellor Rachel Reeves telling the House of Commons today how she's spending300 million pounds of taxpayers money, our money of course, giving people discounts to attractions and cheaper bus fairs for children this summer. This is what the chancellor said.

[02:06:14]>> I can today announce a temporary cut in the rate of VAT on summer attractions from 20% to 5% over the summer holidays.

[02:06:25]This will apply to ticket prices for both adults and children covering attractions such as fairs, theme parks, zoos, and museums.

[02:06:35]>> It will include children's tickets for cinemas, concerts, soft play, and the theater. And it will cut the cost of children's meals in restaurants and cafes from 20% VAT to 5% as well.

[02:06:49]These changes will apply across the UK from the start of the Scottish school holidays on the 25th of June and run until the end of school holidays in England, Wales, and Northern Ireland on the 1st of September.

[02:07:05]>> Oh, that was Rachel Reeves there. Sorry, I was just finishing my cup of tea there. Um, David Maddox is with us and I'll uh David, I I wonder if you've seen this in the Telegraph. Lovely to see you this evening, by the way. But let me just read out a little bit of what the Telegraph is reporting about HMRC officials drawing up plans to impose VAT of 20% on top of fees airports charge airlines. This is Rachel Reeves giving with one hand and apparently taking away with another. This is 20% fees typically passed on to customers in full, meaning the move would keep more cost and holiday makers in business at Heathrow.

[02:07:35]The measures could add fiverr to the current standard charge of about 24 already. One airline industry insider said the labor plan amounted to a stealth tax on families at a time when the cost of living crisis meant many people are already struggling to afford a holiday. Now, you know as well as I do, David, that the biggest single purchase that most families will have outside of their mortgage, if they happen to have a mortgage, will be their summer holiday that just got more expensive.

[02:08:01]it it's almost as if she's uh preparing to kind of encourage us to all have stations at a time when jet fuel's going to be at a premium because of the war in the Middle East. And uh yeah, I mean it's kind of classic as you say give give with one hand take with the other.

[02:08:20]I mean the give was pretty small fry today unless unless you're uh somebody who claims tax back for your for driving and there was there was a decent a decent pay uh a decent kind of tax allowance there but the the rest of it was you know summer holidays small fry on on tickets and and buses >> and it will it will make a difference and some of our viewers listeners are kind of welcoming but but saying it's not enough and here we are just hours later this huge sum to be imposed on top of air passenger duty which ranges for from £15 to £106 for an overseas flight on an economycl class ticket depending on the distance flown. So was today a missed opportunity for the chancellor do you think?

[02:09:04]>> I think it was a huge missed opportunity actually. I mean she she could have done some quite big things. Uh but you know you you got to wonder if if her kind of political and economic room is is so limited now this is a government on the point of kind of collapse or being replaced >> and she's not going to survive as chancellor once Karma is out the door.

[02:09:27]So you know and and I don't think they've got much room for maneuver money.

[02:09:32]>> David I'm sorry I I I'm sorry David I just have to disagree with you. I don't think you've got the memo. Everything's marvelous and brilliant and everything's wonderful and Kier Star Charmer told ITV News today how these migration figures are all brilliant and he is the best prime minister we've ever had in the history of prime minister. So I really think you need to um get with the program here. David, let's see what the prime minister said to ITV News today about how everything is so wonderful in our country >> to see the migration figures this morning come down significantly. Um, and that's obviously on the top of the news about waiting lists last week where we had a record drop in waiting lists. And of course the news about growth, the money we've got in our economy, the fastest growing economy uh in the G7. So that's all really good news within about a week or so. Um, and of course today we're announcing cost living package um for the summer for families. So um I'm really proud that we're getting on and delivering. Thank you very much.

[02:10:30]>> Is it all too little too late? Do you think Prime?

[02:10:32]>> This is really good delivery. This is really significant. So, I'm very very pleased. All of those figures are good news. Taken together, they're a very strong pack.

[02:10:39]>> It's all marvelous, isn't it, David?

[02:10:41]>> It's it's it's all great, which is, you know, why they got such a dropping in the local elections and why Labour MPs can't wait for Andy Burnham to arrive.

[02:10:51]Although, I did notice he also said he was going to campaign in Makerfield, which given his level of popularity, >> kiss of death for Andy Burnham there.

[02:10:58]>> Yeah, exactly. It might be a strategy of kind of keeping Bernham out, you know.

[02:11:03]>> Well, he did. I don't think he went Did he go at all? I don't think he went to Scotland or Wales during the elections there. He didn't go at all.

[02:11:09]>> He famously did a press conference at Govern um shipyard about 20 miles away from one of the Scottish bi-elections, but didn't dare kind of cross into the into the constituency. So it was uh you know I mean he he the the the immigration figures is an interesting one because everybody was taking credit for that today. The Tory ministers uh were previous Tory ministers.

[02:11:36]>> Yeah. Rishi Rishi Sunnak said it was all down to him really didn't he?

[02:11:38]>> It was all down It was all down to them.

[02:11:40]Suela Braverman even was claiming it was down to her even though numbers spiked hugely when she was home the home secretary. So you know I mean everything was uh you know you could there is an argument to be said that actually K star and Shabbanamood were benefiting from some measures put in a couple of years ago which finally paying off but um it's certainly not it was illegal immigration rather than the uh the illegal or irregular immigration. So you know it's not it's not the small boats and that's the real headache. You're absolutely right. And um bring us up to date with what's going on in Makerfield because we know the Green candidate has withdrawn now after less than a day. More questions about Robert Kenyon as well.

[02:12:27]We know Restore Britain has a candidate there as do the uh Conservatives and obviously Reform UK as I mentioned and and Bernham there as we were talking about the Monster Raving Looney Party as well. Um we're not at the stage just yet. We will be after Tuesday. We have to read out all the names. But tell us what's happened with the Green candidate and the continuing questions over Robert Kenyon.

[02:12:47]>> I mean, it it's it's an absolute mess out there. Yeah, the green candidate survived a day, I think, maybe even less than a day. They're saying that he stepped down for family reasons. Uh, you know, obviously hope he's okay, his family's okay, but um they're already looking for a new candidate, which is very odd. Robert Kenyon seems to have more deleted social media accounts than most of us have had hot dinners. And uh you know there's increasing questions about that. I saw that on X in his latest X account. He was doubling down and blaming the mainstream media for uh attacking him. But >> it was interesting actually within that because they did say that he had a sort of personal Facebook account. He deleted that and then got a kind of counselor email account. But I mean there are lots of journalists with with good data skills who will find I'm sure many of the uh many of the things that he has put online and and those will continue to come up during this. Is this is this much of a a big deal at the moment do you think? I mean it's a controversy but is it anything more than uh just a bit of reporting? I I think I think there is a danger for them because uh you know we saw the the kind of far-right accusations in places like Beexley uh really hurt them in the local elections where they could have made quite significant gains or even won the council you know certainly in places like London maybe make a field is different maybe you know he's a local lad he's he's got a he's a counselor there maybe people will just see it as kind of London types coming after and sneering after one of their guys.

[02:14:22]There's always that possibility, but if a far-right label sticks, it does tend to pick put people off. And you know, there is certain certainly some questions about it. I mean, Andy Bernham didn't have the greatest. Sorry, he kind of lost his temper with uh with one of my ex-colagues from the my express days.

[02:14:41]So, he's now the male, Christian Cali.

[02:14:43]Uh there was some uh interesting kind of um exchanges going.

[02:14:48]>> I was reading about that today. Yeah.

[02:14:49]What happened there?

[02:14:51]Well, Christian claims that he just happened to come across Andy Burnham at some event which Andy Burnham hadn't advertised and and you know the Manchester may kind of lost his temper with him a bit but um you know but it kind of underlines that things you know he's beginning to feel the pressure. I've actually had Labour MPs uh messaging me in the last few days saying that you know saying Andy is not going to stick up to the scrutiny. he's he's going to lash out at some point.

[02:15:22]And in fact, when that happened, I had one of them message me to say, "Yeah, see, I told you."

[02:15:28]>> Right. Interesting. Interesting. I I just The thing with Andy Burnham is I just don't think he's that good.

[02:15:33]>> I I just I just think there's there's this myth of Andy Burnham. He wasn't a particularly exciting or good health secretary. He is a Westminster insider through and through. He tries to say, "Oh, look at me. I'm so northern, aren't I?" with his, you know, may as well be wearing a flat cap and have a whip it on a on a lead and talk about the coal in the bath. I mean, the fact is that he was a special adviser. Nothing wrong with that. Some of us have done that ourselves. Uh he worked he was a labor minister. He worked he was an MP for Lee. Uh but I mean he he is he knows a lot about Westminster. He is a Westminster insider. Yes, he spent the latter part of his career in Manchester, but it's not as if he's going to bring anything massively new. I don't think he's a particularly good public speaker.

[02:16:13]I don't think his vision is particularly clear. I don't think what he believes is particularly clear. And I think all of that is going to come out in the next few weeks. And if uh a lot of the media gets its wish and he becomes prime minister, it's going to be the same as Kier Armor. It's going to be exactly what my friend and mentor Michael Craig said a couple of years ago where he said the media, and I don't include you in this, David, because you're fantastic, but so many people not holding up him up to the scrutiny. That didn't happen with Kier Smer and Labor. It's not happening with Andy Burnham now. and uh you know he'll become prime minister and people will go if he does and people will go oh hold on actually there's a load of stuff we didn't know or didn't really think about it's all there it's all there >> well I I can tell you that the independent is certainly planning a prime of scrutiny to him I mean I I agree with you I mean I I remember Andy Bernham in two leadership contests where he was very ordinary >> yeah and lost he lost both of them lost to Jeremy >> Exactly but I mean you know 2010 was a bit of a flyer to be fair against more favored candidates, but 2015 he had the leadership on the plate and lost it to Jeremy Corbyn and got hammered by Jeremy Corbyn because he was so bland and you know I mean he you know this is a guy I mean I makes me laugh that the left of the party kind of want him so desperately because this is a guy who brought privatization to the NHS. Yeah.

[02:17:34]And and things like that no bad thing actually. I have to say, you know, I'm I'm I'm all for kind of private involvement in the NHS personally, but you know, >> but it's not it's not exactly a left-wing health secretary doing that.

[02:17:46]Yeah.

[02:17:47]>> I mean, you know, he's now saying he's going to stick with Shaberna Mimmude's immigration stuff. I mean, you've got to wonder what the guy really stands for, what he's wear. I mean, maybe it is just starism with a smile.

[02:18:01]You know, he's a very good presenter.

[02:18:03]He's he's certainly improved in that respect in my view. I mean, >> since he became Manchester Mayor, he his his um communication skills have shot up skull and that sometimes happens. But um yeah, I'm I I I'm yet to be convinced at all about him. I think there are better candidates in parliament, but we've got a symptom here of everybody thinks that the Labour MPs are all rubbish and that they need to bring somebody in from outside and uh so Andy's Andy's their chosen goal. David, always good to talk to you and thank you for your common sense and wisdom. That's David Maddox there's political editor of the Independent. Thanks to Jane in Milton Kees who says, "Hi Peter, you're looking well this evening." Thank you, Jane.

[02:18:45]Clearly a woman of great taste.

[02:18:46]Regarding data breaches, I used my credit card at our local garage after filling up. It cost £28. I didn't have to use my PIN thankfully as it was a low payment and used the self-scan checkout.

[02:18:56]Within 3 hours, some scumbag had cloned my card, spent nearly 200 quid in Manchester. How on earth did they spend over the PIN amount without my PIN number? Three weeks later, I'm still waiting for the credit card company to contact me. My card is now frozen and since then, I've only used cash and it's absolutely liberating. Love the show as always. Really interesting on that, Jane. Thank you and thanks for the compliment. Mary in Cumbria says, "I'm elderly and not in favor of digital ID.

[02:19:18]It's the beginning of a slippery slope.

[02:19:19]The next thing will be virtual money, virtual wages, etc. Cheers. Great show."

[02:19:23]Thank you, Maria. Mary, always good to hear from you there in Cumbria. And uh Sue's been in touch and says, "Please correct me if I misheard, but I thought I heard in the BBC news earlier that Rachel from accounts said she was going to impose some sort of profit tax on the oil and energy companies." Again, surely if that's correct, it's going to be clawed back from the customers pushing up prices again. I haven't heard that today. I'm not saying it hasn't happened. I can't know every single news story. What I'm going to do is I'm going to ask the top team behind the glass if they can just check that out whether I that would be a kind of windfall tax. I think that probably would have come to my attention, but can we just check what Rachel Reeves has said on oil and gas companies and I'll come straight back to you after the break where we take more uh calls, text, tweets and voice notes.

[02:20:00]So stay with us here on talk Heat. Hey, Heat.

[02:21:30]Some breaking news this morning revealing revealed that under the terrorist act 242 people were arrested in the year to June of this year. are something you can indulge in as to all the people who aren't going to prison because well there's no prison spaces.

[02:21:45]>> So this is a talk exclusive we've been looking at. I said you take these cuffs off me and speak to me like a human being rather than a a common criminal.

[02:21:54]>> You're just left wondering does these people who lead us actually hate Britain? Do they do they not love our country and everything that we've stood for?

[02:22:04]Heat. Heat.

[02:22:35]across the UK on DAB+ on your smart speaker on your smart TV and on your side.

[02:22:46]This is talk to the texture before the break. Um yeah, you're right actually. Um you didn't miss here. Um I just have this uh article in front of me here. I wasn't aware of it. I I try to keep across all the news, but it's not always possible.

[02:23:02]Chancellor scraps rules allowing companies to offset UK profits against overseas losses. Rachel Reeves has launched a fresh tax rate on energy giants, including BP and Shell, to fund 1.8 billion cost of living support. She scrapped a tax rule allowing oil and gas companies to offset profits made in Britain against losses made by foreign subsidies. Cutting the foreign branch exemption is expected to raise hundreds of millions of pounds a year for the Treasury. And the chancellor said the money would fund a 1.8 billion package of support for families and businesses announced today. So you're absolutely right about that. I completely missed that story. I do apologize. Um but uh lots to discuss on digital ID particularly from Steven and Greg. Both have contacted me. Greg's in Edinburgh.

[02:23:41]Good to talk to you again. Greg, tell me your thoughts on digital ID and the debate we heard a little bit earlier on.

[02:23:46]Uh what are your thoughts? You're very welcome to the program this evening.

[02:23:49]>> It's nice to speak to you, Peter. Uh it I was just I was actually quite impressed with your uh your optimism and your faith in the in the political classes.

[02:23:58]>> Probably just naivity, Greg.

[02:24:01]>> Well, I was I was I you could possibly say I won't comment, but but I said as I said to your uh your your producer, I'm sure the good people of Canada didn't uh think it would ever get to the stage where the the you know, the access to their data and to their bank accounts in particular.

[02:24:19]>> Yeah, of course. Well, we remember we remember Greg, you're absolutely right.

[02:24:23]We remember the floppy-haired fascist himself, Justin Trudeau, who uh with his stupid socks, who said, "Oh, look at me.

[02:24:30]I'm also liberal and huggy and wonderful and oh, look at my silly socks and my silly hair." And actually, he was the one who froze the bank accounts of those truck drivers who wouldn't get the vaccine. Now, I have my vaccines. I've had all my boosters and all the rest of it. I have a tedious medical condition which means means that I'm offered a booster every now and again. But I totally support bodily autonomy. I totally support people who don't want to get either the vaccine or the boosters.

[02:24:53]And Canada, you're absolutely right.

[02:24:54]It's a very good example of a supposedly liberal quote unquote society where uh Justin Trudeau and his fellow fascists were clamping down on people who wouldn't do what they said.

[02:25:05]No, I I just have no faith whatsoever in in in politicians in general when to that once they've got power over you, they're very very reluctant to give it back.

[02:25:18]>> The the thing as well though, Greg, with within that is they have to be kind of organized. And the thing is that I just I don't have the faith in them to be that organized. And that's partially why all these data breaches uh take place as well.

[02:25:31]Well, that that's that's true. But my my main fear is that uh it's slowly, you know, it's like a boil a boiling frog.

[02:25:38]One minute. Oh, we'll do this. We'll do this. We do this. And it's tiny little steps towards and I know it's hyperbolic to say, oh, we'll have something like the the the social credit structure that they've got in in China. Uh but Canada's an example. And remember, income tax was only ever meant to be a temporary measure to pay for the to the people.

[02:26:00]>> These these are all very good points, Greg. These are all very very good points and thank you for them. That's Greg in Edinburgh there. Let's go to Steven in London. See what he thinks.

[02:26:08]Steven, you're very welcome to the program. What are your views on this?

[02:26:11]>> Hi, Peter. Yes, I'm strongly against um digital IDs by the government. Um people say that well, if you don't break the law, you have nothing to worry about.

[02:26:20]Well, the thing is if government has digital IDs, they'll be able to penalize us for doing things which aren't breaking the law, such as eating too much fat, using too much petrol.

[02:26:31]>> Do you really think they're going to do that the way they do in China, for example? Do you really think that's where the government is heading? That we need to be as suspicious as all of this?

[02:26:39]Well, I can't be entirely sure they will, and you can't be entirely entirely sure they shouldn't be given the possibility of doing it. If you said um 10 years ago that in the UK you can be arrested at 3:00 a.m. in the morning for posting on social media, no one would have believed you.

[02:26:56]>> Again, a very good point. Thank you, Stephen. And thank you, Greg. Great calls this evening. All great calls every evening, but particularly this evening has some really, really good contributors. Here's another one. Gary says, "What surprises me the most is what a VAT is added to. Is there nothing where any government takes their cut?

[02:27:11]Why have we just sealed along with them just taking more and more of our after tax money with fuel prices? The fuel duty is added then VAT. So we uh pay tax on the tax we pay. Please make it make sense. I wish I could. Gary Lucy says uh digital ID is tyranny. I volunteered to help with my local church. I was require required to submit absolutely all my personal data to the Dasis for a DBS check. Thus disclosure and borrowing service what used to be called a criminal records bureau check was then informed by the dasis that unfortunately all my data had been stolen from the DBS checkers. What red address or reassurance do I have? Absolutely none.

[02:27:43]We have managed perfectly well without digital ID thus far. The intentions behind it can only be malign. This is obvious says Lucy Mike Lincoln says facial recognition does not solve crime.

[02:27:54]It identifies individuals who the police are looking for. The police still have to prove whether someone has committed a crime. Yeah, but you know they they they they sometime I mean if if they're looking for a suspect they have at least caused it's not just randomly saying well we don't like the look of you we're going to take you in Mike. The other issue that Mike contining says those who are being sought or who are breaking the law all seem to wear face coverings.

[02:28:15]Well not all of them but some of them certainly do. John in Lincolnshire says social credit won't happen. Neither would being able to go out for a coffee in the park or visit your grand in the care home or wait that was illegal during co. Just because you think it's nuts doesn't mean it won't happen.

[02:28:27]Social media bans for kids are very much in progress already says John and Lincolnshire Katherine and Cardiff says I agree wholeheartedly with Montgomery.

[02:28:34]The co tobacco ensured that I will never trust the political class again. It will say anything to elicit our votes then completely ignore our wishes once in par. No, no, no to digital ID, says Katherine in Cardiff. And Tony in Warrington says, "Why give us discounts on things that don't need to be discounted? Cut fuel tax on businesses regul regulation, not zoo fees," says Tony in Warrington. And actually an interesting one from Alisa in Chsford as well who's contacted me to say, "I just purchased two annual passes, the zoo and uh the Royal Horicultural Society, Hide Hall. Do I get a rebate from Rachel?" I think we both know the answer to that, Alisa, and I fear it is no. Craig is in Yorkshire and has given me a ring on 0344991000.

[02:29:13]Craig, what would you like to say? Hey, welcome to the program.

[02:29:15]>> Yeah, hi Peter. Good evening. Uh, it's just about these kind of, you know, temporary cuts to VAT. I mean, it clearly hasn't been very well thought out and this is, you know, typical, really typical of Labor. You know, they don't think of second or third order consequences to their decisions. So, imagine you're a member of the royal family and you want to go out and take some of your grandchildren to a Pizza Express in Woking. Now all of a sudden the pizza outlet has to go and reprint their menus to adjust the pricing on the kids pizzas and then 6 weeks later they'll have to reprint them again or get the old menus out of a drawer and put those on the table, make sure they don't mix them up and update their point of sale software to reflect on the prices. And then you could at lunchtime, as I did today, you could go to Weatherspoons with your colleague and and load up some menu items on the app.

[02:30:10]And what would stop me from ordering two children's meals with um a VAT rate of 5% apply to then having them delivered to my table?

[02:30:19]>> I sometimes order children's meals, Craig. I I I sometimes order children's meals, not not to get a discount, but just cuz I'm not that hungry. Doesn't happen often, but it does happen every now and again.

[02:30:28]>> Well, and precisely. So, you could do that. And um would that be allowed?

[02:30:32]Where do you draw the line? Where's the distinction between adults, meals, and and children?

[02:30:37]>> It's almost Craig Craig, sorry to stop you, but it's almost as if I mean, it's hard to believe. Obviously, it's it's basically impossible to believe, but it's it's almost as if Rachel Reeves hasn't thought this out.

[02:30:47]>> And that's just so typical, isn't it, Peter? They don't think of anything.

[02:30:52]What they should be doing is helping businesses. They should be, you know, making parking free in all council car parks. That would be helpful, wouldn't it? That would, you know, cuz around where I live, they got rid of all the the free parking bay um which has stopped people just calling in to buy a coffee or do a quick shop on their way out um from Illey down to wherever they're going. So, reinstate the free parking in in towns or make them free for the whole of the summer holidays.

[02:31:22]Yeah, I mean that's that's a very good idea if you could simply say right we're going to make parking in towns, villages, wherever, we're going to make that free. If it's on the street, we're going to make it free. If it's if it's not, you know, obviously residential parking, people need to be able to park there properly. I get that and they've paid for residential parking and all the rest of it. But that is a really really good point. If you're going to say we want this to be a British a good British summer for business, we're going to encourage people into our town centers, those high streets that are are having much trouble. I mean, that's a really good idea, Craig. That that is a common sense idea that the government just won't do. You know they won't do it. I know they won't do it.

[02:31:57]>> Yeah. They won't do it. And I mean this is the home of common sense, isn't it?

[02:32:00]But of course, you know, these these Labor clowns, they just don't think strategically. They I I I'm just beside myself. I mean, a friend of mine today, he's he's in Hong Kong, as you as you know, I used to live there. So, he's coming here with his four kids in the summer and he's saying, "My goodness, I'm looking at the price and you know, as a family, we're not going to be able to go to Tower of London." And I said, "Well, just do as I did when I took my kids to London. You walked up to it. You say, "Kids, there's Tower of London."

[02:32:29]Then you walk somewhere else. We can't afford to go in these places. Um, and he >> and it's it's dreadful when it gets to that. You know, these are lovely places.

[02:32:37]is these are really important parts of our heritage. But when an an ordinary person, an ordinary tourist on holiday or people who live in this country or whoever can't afford to go there, that that just it just says a lot. Listen, great common sense there. Really great call from Craig in Yorkshire. Really appreciate that. Lucy says Reeves's bribes are insulting. How stupid does she think people are? Sarah near Plymouth says, "I have never voted for Labor in my life. I've traveled across China. I do not trust any Labor government to introduce digital ID.

[02:33:04]They're too cozy with Beijing. On digital ID, AJ's been in touch and says, "This government said it would be uh it would be to smash the gangs that live field. Now the mask slips and they're pushing it anyway, like toddlers throwing a tantrum. No thanks." Leslie says, "If Reeves hadn't taxed families to death, there would be no need for her for her to trumpet these ridiculous freebies." Uh like uh free school breakfasts again. Uh Angie says, "I live in Portsouth, but it really annoys me when they keep mispronouncing Makerfield." Makerfield. How hard is it?

[02:33:33]Um, not that hard really as I found. I I hadn't hadn't heard of Makerfield before the bi-election. Then I heard it. I made sure I knew how it was pronounced and and that was that. It's not uh it's not, you know, a French name like Shahazad or something like that. Leslie says, "Hi, Peter." Leslie here. Hi Leslie. What planet are Starman is MLY crew on?

[02:33:52]Obviously not the one we live on. I've received two messages this evening about Rachel Reeves's hair. I am usually quite reluctant to uh criticize people's appearances, but I'll read this out from Nat who says, "I see the Labour duo now has a makeover. Starmer now a comedian and Reeves is Reeves as a hair model. I will say not that that is uh slightly nicer than another one which um compared Rachel Reeves's previous hairstyle to shall we say a Shakespearean and indeed historical figure who you can guess.

[02:34:20]Lots to discuss in just a second. More about digital ID. We'll take more of your calls right up to 10:00. And if you want to get your call in, now's the time. Use the break to lift the phone.

[02:34:28]0344991000 is the number to call if you want to get your views across on digital ID on Rachel Reeves. Whatever you want to say to me, however you want to say it to me, give me a ring and we will have a chat.

[02:34:41]0344991000 is the number to call. Stay with us here on Talk.

[02:34:50]Heat. Heat.

[02:35:26]Hey, Heat. Heat.

[02:36:13]across the UK on DAB+ on your smart speaker on your smart TV and on your side. This is talk.

[02:36:28]>> Kitby has been in touch and says more young people are interested in new mobile phones that do not use Google platforms. Many now use VPNs. We should be consider uh we should be we should consider uh abuse of personal freedom and censorship. Speech is being monitored travel through ul 15-minute towns and pay per mile. The criminals soon bypass facial recognition and ID systems. So the only people monitoring will be you and me says Kate speak.

[02:36:51]Although that's very kind of you to assume I'm not a criminal. Uh, John says, "You must get Michael Oly of Ryan on. I can't wait. He's going to be one happy bunny." Not I'd love to interview Michael Oly. I sort of have a weird grudging admiration for him. Um, he's sort of sort of sort of brilliantly and and impressively evil. Um, Becca says, "The waiting figures have gone down because they're removing people from NHS lists. Starmer must really think we're idiots." And Melanie and Stafford says, "Regarding Rachel Reeves' plans, they are great ideas, but some areas do not have many double-decker buses. bus companies will struggle to fit everybody in, especially uh the company uh D&G says um Melanie and Stafford, thank you for that. If you want to get your call in, if you want to get on the air between now and 10:00, there's loads to discuss whether it is uh what Rachel Reeves is doing, giving of one hand, taking away the other. We're hearing him in the Telegraph tonight about HMRC officials drawing up plans to impose VAT of 20% on top of fees airports charge airlines. What do you think of that? Uh you can also let us know about digital ID or anything else that's on your mind.

[02:37:49]0344991000 is the number to call. But I want to talk now about a foreign story, but it does have implications here in the UK.

[02:37:57]And we talk a lot about Israel and I get criticized a lot on this uh because of my support for the nation of Israel. I don't always support the Israeli government and I certainly don't support the national security minister Atimer Ben Gavir. And uh there's a a horrible video that he in fact seems to be proud of showing him taunting activists kneeling with their hands tied behind their backs. They're not particularly nice people. They're pro Palestinian activists detained in Israel after their flutilla bringing as they put it symbolic aid to Gaza. That means not aid to Gaza. It's just there performatively uh was intercepted and uh they these hundreds of people have been deported. I don't support them doing that. These are the kind of uh flutellas that Greta Tunberg was on and so on when she finally when she looked so enthusiastic about that turkey sandwich. But that aside, when you take prisoners, when you detain people, I think you do have to treat them with as much dignity as you can. That shows a civilized nation. But the national security minister of Israel, Etimar Ben Kavir, has this video of him taunting them. They're kneeling.

[02:39:00]They're powerless. He is incredibly powerful as the national security minister. Just take a look at this.

[02:39:13]>> So he's smiling and taunting these people and he's thinking it's all a big joke and waving his Israeli flag. These are people sort of bending over being sort of taken out by uh and with their faces on the ground because they're being detained. He's taunting them. me shouting at them or raising his voice anyway and smiling and essentially using his power and I think that this is just really unsemly when it comes to this these people I don't support them these proalestinian activists but I also don't support Ben Gavir the national security minister has caused quite a sensation in Israel and of course there's so many of us here in the UK who want to support the Israeli nation largely want to support the Israeli government but when things like this happen it makes our job harder and it makes the image of the Israeli government go down in uh many people's estimation. Now, Edmar, Beng is not a nice man for many reasons. He is a really far-right person with horrible opinions on many things. Uh let's find out what's happening in Israel with this because Noga Tarnipolski is a veteran correspondent based in Jerusalem is with me now. No, thank you for joining me this evening. Just talk me through this controversy.

[02:40:28]>> Well, it's a huge uh huge controversy.

[02:40:31]Let's discuss for a moment who itar Benvir is because he's much more than, you know, a radical right-winger. He really is a thug. He's a man who his entire career has been one of a sort of terror. And I don't say that lightly. He was convicted 13 times of hate crimes and terror associations. He was a supporter of the infamous Dr. Goldstein, the Israeli American physician who uh in the early 90s when Itak Rabin was the prime minister of Israel, walked into a mosque in Hebron and murdered some 30 Muslim uh worshippers had I've actually been to that mosque. I have been to that area in Hebrron and I've I remember hearing about that an absolutely horrific attack.

[02:41:23]So it Marbender was a fan of this guy until very recently. He had his photograph on his living room walls. He he was someone who incited for the murder of Prime Minister Robin. He is beyond extremist. The former head of the Mossad, Tamir Partardo, who is no, you know, left-wing activist. He said that Itamar Ben and a few other of Netanyahu's ministers of that ilk, he said they're akin to the KKK. I'm quoting. So, I just wanted I think it's important to frame who we're speaking about. In fact, he's considered such a squalid figure that Prime Minister Netanyahu refused to be seen with him in public until late 2022 when suddenly he needed him.

[02:42:09]>> Well, let's get to that because there'll be a lot of our viewers and listeners thinking, hold on a second. If this guy is so awful, why on earth is he national security minister of Israel? But as we know uh there are so many ways in politics in this country as well this democracy as well as your democracy Nova where needs must and Benjamin Netanyahu needed him to prop up his very wide ranging coalition >> right it's a complex uh coalition and I'm very reluctant to refer to it as rightwing because I think that if we reflect on what prime minister's government has done in the last three and a half years there's very little that we can consider consider traditionally right-wing. What we see is a situation in which Prime Minister Netanyahu himself indicted for crimes who persuaded using a rather fanciful argument that was that prospered that was victorious. He persuaded the Israeli Supreme Court that despite the fact that the law prohibits ministers from serving if they're indicted for crimes. He said that the prime minister is a different sort of figure because he's elected as a party head and that it would be unconstitutional to prohibit one's election if one is not convicted of crimes. The Supreme Court bought this and allowed it. And as a result, what we have is a fragile prime minister indicted of Quran crimes who has been on trial now for many years, trying always to delay the trial sessions, trying to delay testimony. And there were very few parties in the Israeli parliament who would agree to sit with him under those circumstances. So he had to go searching in the far reaches of sort of lawless parties >> marginal in order to be able to hold on to power. And that's created a situation paradoxically where this government despite the catastrophe of October 7th this government has held on longer than almost every other modern era Israeli government. And it's because these are fragile parties and fragile party leaders who know that without one without the other Benvir without Natino for example would fail and would not be reelected. And so this coalition has actually held on and has proved itself to be quite sturdy given the circumstances because they need each other desperately.

[02:44:29]>> When is the next Israeli election?

[02:44:32]>> Great question.

[02:44:34]I've asked I've asked it of many Israeli friends of mine and uh when someone says you have a great question what do >> they say?

[02:44:40]>> Well well they say they often say good question or great question which generally means they don't have a great answer or or or a strong answer. You have an answer but no one quite knows.

[02:44:51]>> By law the government the election next election must take place at the very latest by October the 27th of 2026.

[02:45:00]Um there's an interesting constellation right now. Netanyahu's coalition as I was hinting to you is really unraveling.

[02:45:08]It's you know what we see are for example ministers not just Benvir I don't want to go into other ministers because it's a bit in the weeds but ministers such as Benvir really taunting the prime minister. You know, Bener used his abused his power against these detainees who, let's add, were deported from Israel with no charges. Even Israel doesn't claim they did anything criminal. Unlike the minister himself, who's a convict, but principally Benvir is taunting Netanyahu. He's trying to see how badly he can behave before the prime minister would act against him or fire him.

[02:45:46]>> So far, Netanyahu is taking it all on the chin. And what this tells us is that the prime minister does not want early elections. But the government lost a bit of that argument this week. A preliminary bill. A bill passed its first reading in parliament in the Knesset just two days ago to disperse the Knesset to disperse itself. It's likely to pass a second and third reading and become a law next week. And then there would be early elections in Israel sometime between August and September. Can you give me a sense of how people have reacted to this extraordinary video? Not necessarily politically, but just people in uh Israel, in Jerusalem or wherever who have reacted to this presumably there's loads of reaction on social media and so on. I know there are loads of people including a person who one of our texters earlier on who said, "Look, I'm sitting here in Israel watching and listening to this program. I don't like Ben." And actually that's quite a good illustration of how Israel is a democracy and people vehemently disagree including with people like Ben. People do vehemently disagree with Benvver and it's questionable whether he's actually exercising his powers as minister legally. One of the reasons this government is likely to fall is because at the moment the Supreme Court is hearing arguments about the illegality of his actions as minister and then Netanyahu could be forced to fire him and the government would fall that way.

[02:47:09]He's not a popular guy but he is a provocator.

[02:47:13]He's a liar. The interesting constellation this week is that Israelis have gotten used during this endless war to uh Benver's abuses against them. For example, there are protesters against the Israeli government, against government who have been rotting in jail with no charges against them under some sort of administrative detention of questionable legality for months.

[02:47:39]Bener's police under his orders have attacked peaceful demonstrators weekly.

[02:47:46]It's a very difficult situation, but Israelis have sort of been lulled by the fact that it's an internal problem. It's an internal struggle. Now, it's become an international scandal. And so now Israelis suddenly have had their eyes open to how shocking this appears when the rest of the world sees what they've been suffering. Yeah.

[02:48:06]>> Um it's a complicated situation and um I think we're going to have to let the next few days pass, but it's this story is absolutely still underway. It's not over.

[02:48:16]>> Thank you, Noga. Really interesting to talk to you and thank you for that analysis there. No Tarnipolski who is a veteran correspondent based in Jerusalem. I've interviewed her on a number of times on a different station actually. I fill in on Times Radio from time to time and she always has great analysis. So excellent to have her on the program. Uh Debbie's been in touch and says, "Digital ID is on your phone.

[02:48:35]They love facial recognition. How do you open your phone?" Well, I don't have facial recognition on my phone actually.

[02:48:40]I use a code. Uh but there we are. I haven't heard anything from Georgina lately. I hope she's well, says Ernie.

[02:48:45]Um I'm not sure Georgina has rung in. Uh she's a regular caller. I don't think I've had her on my show for a little while. I think I heard her on another show the other day, actually, but Georgina, we hope everything is okay with her. I'm pretty sure it is, but um thank you for your concern. I mean, we are a community here. uh we are uh people do care about one another and we notice when people are there or not there and um I got a lovely message actually I'll not say who it was but I got a really lovely email from someone all I said was oh you know as I sometimes say you know uh let's just pick a name out of the air Bob uh you know Bob I haven't heard from you in a while you know hope you're well or something like that just a sort of throwaway remark um a few sometime last week actually and I got a lovely message from that person saying how actually they had not been able to send in messages because they had a major problems with uh health of someone in their household and they were looking after that person and how you know listening to talk and and watching talk was was something that that helped them through that time and I just you know it's such a privilege to do this job. Um Burnham Andy Burnham apparently expected to offer waying a role in a future cabinet if he decides not to um run against him perhaps or if he becomes prime minister. This is according to uh reports again in the Telegraph. We'll bring you more on that I'm sure as the evening goes on. Um Ernie says, "Talking about digital ID, I read something online that said that Russians canceled the bank accounts of the families of all fighting age men and women who didn't sign up to fight in Ukraine. The things that a government could do at the press of a button with digital ID is frightening." I don't know if that's true, Ernie, certainly. But um interesting to hear it nonetheless. Gary says the government are giving discounts on children's meals. Does this include fast food that they're trying to discourage? Neil says, "Regarding digital ID, if the government makes it compulsory and an individual refuses to have it, what could happen to that individual?" If the answer is jail, then it's not too ridiculous to presume they would be used for nefarious re reasons.

[02:50:34]And the last one before we go to the last break of the program, Mark says Reeves is going on about these discounts like 10p off a weekly shop. Would this just be absorbed by the supermarkets and never get passed on to the customer even though it's a pathetic amount anyway?

[02:50:46]Also, this energy price cap reduction that's meant to last for three months.

[02:50:49]My electric and gas bill has not dropped even a penny. So, did this even ever happen or again just benefited the energy companies and not the consumer?

[02:50:56]We'll speak to a couple of callers after the break. We'll also h find out what's coming up on Ash and Andre show which is after 10:00 this evening. Stay with us here on Talk.

[02:51:36]Hey, When conflict breaks out anywhere in the world, it has consequences here at home.

[02:52:16]Talk more is your definitive national security briefing. From the conflict in Ukraine to the tensions in Gaza and the latest escalation with Iraq. This is where you'll find comprehensive comments and expert analysis with multiple updates throughout the day. The Talk War podcast from Talk available on the Talk app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[02:53:19]across the UK on DAB+ on your smart speaker, on your smart TV, and on your side. This is talk.

[02:53:34]Your fears about Georgina are uh unfounded. She was on with Ian Collins this afternoon, I'm reliably informed.

[02:53:40]So, fear not. everything as well with Georgina, one of our regular callers.

[02:53:44]Peter in Manchester has phoned me a number of times as well. Good to talk to you again, Peter. What's on your mind this evening?

[02:53:50]>> Well, basically it's just the government is hiding everything and they're not being true.

[02:54:04]>> What What are they hiding, Peter? What are they hiding? They >> They're not being true to what they say they're going to do.

[02:54:12]What do you think they said they'd do that they haven't?

[02:54:15]>> Well, they said they're going to reduce immigration, things like that.

[02:54:19]>> I mean, they have they the the the today 171,000 is the figure. That is that is a big fall.

[02:54:27]>> No, >> it is though, Peter. It is.

[02:54:29]>> How many people from this country that are British have left? Well, well, >> that is what people don't understand.

[02:54:41]>> Yeah, you're right. There's there's immigration and immigration, but those figures are out today, Peter, and they're undeniable. I mean, that if we don't trust the Office of National Statistics, uh who can we trust? Peter, listen, thanks for your call. I just want to squeeze in Alli uh from Sweden.

[02:54:53]Uh just before I speak to Ash, um Ally, you're very welcome to the program. What would you like to say?

[02:54:58]>> Hi. Hi, Peter. Um I'm in Aberdine now. I came >> Okay, we will we will update that on our system. Alli is in Aberdine now. We'll update that. Yeah, I've been deported from Sweden. I had my own company and uh everything was all right in Sweden, but they decided they've hit hardcore in Sweden that they want British people out. They go on about Brexit. So, here I am in Aberdine and I have to go to the council tomorrow to try and plea for my rights. I've left my business, um, my home, everything in Stockholm and I have to go and bleed my guts out to the council in Aberdine tomorrow when other people get on the boats tomorrow and they get everything.

[02:55:54]>> Do you Does it Does it I mean, I'm sorry you're going through this.

[02:55:56]>> I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I You're so nice and calm.

[02:56:00]>> Don't Don't Don't worry, Alli. Listen, you've been through a lot in the last few weeks and we appreciate you giving us a ring.

[02:56:07]>> Does your experience make you obviously you've made your view very clear there on people coming across in small boats.

[02:56:13]What about people who come here legitimately? I mean, is that is that something that you maybe have a bit more sympathy with now because you've sort of gone through it in reverse essentially?

[02:56:22]>> But I've come here legitimate legitimately.

[02:56:25]>> Yes.

[02:56:26]>> And I get such bad treatment. It's like beyond belief. It's like I never set foot on the soil of Britain.

[02:56:35]>> Well, listen.

[02:56:36]>> It's It's horrible, Peter. And everything that's happening in the UK is just disgraceful and it's horrible.

[02:56:49]I just want I just >> bless you people. Well, thank you, Ali.

[02:56:52]Go at night.

[02:56:53]>> Well, I listen, I wish you well, uh, Alli, for everything that's happening tomorrow and in future days as well.

[02:56:58]You've clearly been through a lot. We've spoken on a few occasions in the last couple of weeks and I wish you well Alli uh in Aberdine and it's a beautiful city. Uh I am a big fan of that area and in fact Stone Haven the little village of Stone Haven is somewhere where my heart lies. I've been there many many times with my best friend who's from there originally and I wish you well Alli and I hope things get better. Ash, hello sir. How are you?

[02:57:23]>> Yeah that's very sad isn't it? And you can feel you know is cultural suicide isn't it? And you can really it's really tangible and I heard the Polish premier speaking and him saying well all these big European capitals have gone really in the big cities and he saved Poland and when he talks about all the facts and breaks down all the different empirical uh data pockets uh it he's definitely right and uh you know I don't know how we can reverse it. It's very sad. But anyway, >> what's coming up in your program?

[02:57:52]>> Never mind all that. You can be happy and tune in to Andre and Ash. We've got Lois Mlache. Yeah, forget all what I just said. Don't get depressed. I mean, it is depressing. Lois Mlache Miller.

[02:58:02]Uh, the assisted dying bills coming in.

[02:58:04]Uh, I think we've got Pete Barnes as well coming in, political commentator.

[02:58:08]We'll be going through the papers. Have you seen my suntan from today?

[02:58:11]>> Quite the suntan. It doesn't quite match your uh >> No, the thing is I'm not sure whether it's that or whether cuz there's no makeup this time of evening. I picked up the wrong pot, but never mind cuz it's going to be 27° tomorrow. So, it should blend in. Uh, how was your show, man?

[02:58:26]>> Um, fine. Apart from the fact that I was insulted about my neck. I was told I had >> What's wrong with your neck? It's quite beautiful. Like a swan. It's like a swan your neck.

[02:58:33]>> Swan. If only it was. If only it was.

[02:58:35]No, I was I was accused by someone who should know better behind the scenes that I have uh um not enough of a neck.

[02:58:41]Anyway, what else is going on?

[02:58:43]>> I just little tip for you. You know, she's given us all